Export Problems with Premiere Pro

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Gagster123
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i am running dual AMD opterons 244's on a K8T Master2 FAR with 1 gig of ram, two 74 gig WD raptors with raid 0, and a maxtor 7200 rpm 250 gig hd. i have windows xp pro SP2 with a micro innovations 3 port firewire PCI host card.

whenever i try to export to tape from premiere, i get random dropouts. it goes smoothly for a while, but then the DV cam gets a blue screen for about 2 seconds, then the video comes back on. it does not happen at the same spot in the video, it is very random. whether i am playing the video on the timeline with "play video on DV device only" enabled, or using export to tape, i still get the same dropouts.

i have heard people say that to fix this you should defrag and make sure that premiere is installed on a different drive than the video file. i have dont both of these, and it has not fixed the problem. because of my dual SATA WD raptors with raid 0, i should have NO problem with reading spead, so the only thing i can think of is the firewire card. but then again, it captures perfectly!!!

i have been using premiere for a long long time, and i have never encountered this problem on any other system before.

if someone has any ideas on how to fix this dropout, please reply. thankyou

harlequin
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make sure firewall software is off.
no anti-virus software running.
system restore is switched off.
indexing system is switched off.

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

Gagster123
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ok i will try that, but i didnt have any problem with those kinds of things on my previous work stations.

Gagster123
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ok the firewall and security stuff being off did not fix the problem. i have switched the pci slot for my firewire card and still no luck. any ideas?

harlequin
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which slot is firewire card in , counting from agp video card slot ?
is it sharing an irq with anything else ?

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

Gagster123
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it used to be in the 1st, now its in the 4th. i have a sound card in the 3rd. how should i check irq?

Gagster123
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ok i checked the irq and it is not in conflict with any other device. i have tried the 3 pci slots i have available (my sound card is in one) and still no luck.

harlequin
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have you loaded the newest motherboard drivers for the chipset ?

many motherboards work inefficiently with generic drivers , use the manufacturers drivers if they are available.

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

Gagster123
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i have the most recent chipset software for my K8T Master2 FAR (http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K8T_Master2_FAR&class=ma). the thing is, it does not have onboard ieee, so there is no specefic firewire drivers to download. the micro inovations firewire card i got did not come with software, and there is none on the internet. i have tried to use my friends ieee card and im getting the same problem. could it be the VIA driver?

harlequin
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it could be the way the pci ports are polled.

one solution i have seen is to switch off acpi in the bios.
that stops irq sharing with some of the cards , and therefore the interrupts don't cause stuttering.

oh , a very silly question , but

1. what agp card ( or graphics card ) ?
and
2. what is agp aperture set to in bios ?

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

Gagster123
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well i couldnt find acpi in my bios, but i did turn on PCI Master 0 WS Write. it didnt work. i also downloaded another driver for the card. same drop-out problem. i opened task manager while exporting video to tape, and there was NO spike in cpu usage when the video dropped out. i think that there is something that "refreshes" my devise every few minutes or something. im not sure...

anyways i have a radeon 9600 SE 8x agp vid card. agp aperture in bios? i think i had something like that on automatic. thanks for helping

Gagster123
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and the card has a unique irq address. no conflicts.

harlequin
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should have thought of this earlier

is ieee1394 networking enabled ?

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

Gagster123
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i think it is. when i goto "view my network connections" i have my lan and a "1394 connections 7". theres also a 1394 adapter under network adapters in device manager. do i want this, or should i disable it?

harlequin
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disable the network connection over 1394 and see if it improves output

start
settings
network connections
1394 connection > right click and select disable

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

Gagster123
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disabled it...didnt work =(

Jas7
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Joined: Sep 30 2004

Perhaps it may be true that Premiere Pro does not yet work properly on Amd sysrems.
This was the case when Premiere Pro was first introduced.The system requirements even in the 1.5 version state Pentium 3 or above processor required.
I have searched Adobe site..it does not mention anything about Amd processors. So this points to the fact that Prem Pro works properly only in Pentium systems.
In fact I would personally like to hear from others who have been able to Work satisfactorily in Amd Athlon or newer Amd processor systems.
Perhaps you should phone Adobe .. 0208 606 1100 if you are in UK..or checkout links in www.adobe.com. ;) :rolleyes:

Jaswant

Jas7
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Joined: Sep 30 2004

Sorry
I mean to hear from others who have been able to satisfactorily Use Premiere Pro,earlier version or the new 1.5 version , in Amd based systems.

Jaswant

Gagster123
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i guess i will call adobe, but my friend had an amd processor and his premiere pro works fine. thx though. any other ideas?

Jas7
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Ok,
Let us know how and which Amd processor system you friend has.
I tried Prem Pro in an AMD AthlonXP 2400 ,512mb memory system.. the program kept freezing - had to restart pc!!! I know 'low' memory maybe a problem, but system lockups happened even on small projects.Same projects were ok in Prem 6.5.and all Ulead programs.

Anyway- any news from Adobe helpline for your problems? :rolleyes:

Jaswant

Gagster123
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ok well my friend has an AMD AthlonXP 2100 with 786 megs of ram running windows xp home sp2, but he has not captured/exported to tape since he got sp2. i have not yet called adobe, but i think i im going to uninstall SP2 and try it then...ill let you know what happens.

Gagster123
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sorry i have not called adobe yet...i just had surgery actually (appendix), not so much fun. ill call them asap

Gagster123
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does anyone have any ideas? would an expensive, better firewire card do anything? this is a really sucky problem to have on a computer that i built for video editing.

harlequin
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try using windows movie maker ( or any other editing program ) and see if you have the same problems.
If you don't , it must be an 'adobe doesn't like my pc' problem.

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

Gagster123
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used movie maker, same exact problem =(

harlequin
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ok , so something is 'attacking' the data being sent via firewire.

there is a very simple program on the net called dvio which will 'send' an avi to the firewire port and therefore a camera.

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_software/video_tools/dvio.cfm a 32k file

give it a try , it may work as it works at a different interface level.

after that you need to see what is running on your pc to determine what is causing the interuption to data going to firewire.

if you get hold of enditall2.zip from the net

i have it on my website

www.avtech.demon.co.uk/download/enditall2.zip 745k

run it
and see what it says is running on your pc.

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

Gagster123
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Joined: Nov 3 2004

ok well i terminated all non essential programs and sadly, it didnt fix it.

Gagster123
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sorry guys, but i have discovered that i have problems exporting video AND capturing. my 1st post said the card captured fine, but it does not. it captures well for a few minutes, then it will stop and say "could not find timecode" and the dv device will suddenly become "unavailable". and yes, the timecode on the tape is correct. it just seems like my dropout problem happens both ways on the firewire card.

also, i have now tried 3 different firewire cards and different drivers. same problem with every card. leads me to think its my motherboard or software...any ideas? thx

Gavin Gration
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Joined: Jul 29 1999

Disconnect the striped Raptor's (assuming they're video drives).

Work with the 250GB drive - see if things improve.

Gavin

Gagster123
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Joined: Nov 3 2004

Do yo mean fully disconnect them? i have windows on them and a lot of programs though... i have tried to have premiere installed on the 250 gig along with all the video files, but still the same problem.

should i really disconnect the raptors and install windows on the slower drive?

johnr
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Joined: Jan 11 2004

I have a AMD FX53 on an ASUS SK8N board and using Premiere Pro 1.5, which does have a built in firewire (actually 2) as well as a RAID and nVIdia 5500 video card, which originally wouldn't either capture or play back via the firewire. A friend then downloaded a new bios set for the board as well as new drivers and suddenly, it worked llike a charm playing back in real time through a tape deck to a TV and capturing perfectly. I'm not sure this helps, but the AMD really is fast and can work at least in a single processor.
John RIch

Gavin Gration
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Joined: Jul 29 1999

I'm suprised you are booting off a stripe-set.

There is no benefit in that configuration for a edit machine.

You may as well install Windows on a thirty five quid 80GB IDE drive.

There are loads of things that affect datarates - even silly things like a duff mouse! Bad network configuration can limit system performance too.

Do you have DriectCD or similar packet-writing (drag+drop) CD/DVD burning software installed? If so remove it.

I'm no expert but if it were my system I would configure it as follows.

Install an IDE drive with enough space for Windows (7.5GB partition) and another partition for applications (say 30GB) with the remaming partition for data/back-ups.

Use the SATA drives as two seperate video drives unless you have a need for very high datarates (even 4 streams of DV is less than 20MB/Sec).

The 250GB will also work as a great video drive should the Raptors get full (90%).

Like I said that's how I would configure it for video - others may not agree.

Finally I'm still concerned that you are running PremierePro on an un-supported platform - reports of other people getting away with it doesn't mean your specific set up will work. Adobe must have a reason for NOT stating AMD processors are supported.

Hope this helps.

Gavin

JONMAC
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Joined: Dec 17 2004

The problem outlined by Gagster123 at the start of this thread would seem to have become quite common in recent months, judging by the number of times I've read similar postings while trawling the Net for a solution. It struck me that two common factors appeared to be Windows XP Service Pack 2 and, frequently but not exclusively, Sony Digital 8 camcorders. My problem persisted after installing a new Firewire card, so in desperation I performed a System Restore to a point before SP2 had been installed. Sure enough, everything worked well, both in capture and export to tape, and it seemed to me that the problem lay with the new Firewire and imaging device drivers which come with SP2. I was reluctant to uninstall SP2 permanently and I first tried to reinstall the old drivers. However, thanks to a feature of XP which prevents system files been overwritten by older versions, the new drivers kept reappearing. I eventually found a solution on the RME Intelligent Audio Solutions website which, although addressing a different problem, provided clear instructions on installing older versions of Firewire drivers without uninstalling SP2. There is a copyright restriction on this webpage which prevents me from reproducing the instructions, but there is nothing to stop me giving the URL.

Sorry about the long preamble. Here's what I would suggest :

1. Create a restore point in case of accidents.

2. Enable the viewing of hidden files (Tools>Folder Options>View>Show hidden files and folders)

3. Note the instructions on the RME webpage, specifically under the heading "Back to SP1?". This can be found at:
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/techinfo/fw800sp2.htm

If your Firewire card was already being recognised by your PC this will not necessarily correct the "export to tape" problem and you may find that you are still unable to export video back to the camcorder. In this case proceed to step 4.

4. Create another temporary folder, similar to 1394_fix and name it, for example, "cam_fix".

5. With the camcorder switched to VCR and connected to the PC via Firewire, look in Device Manager>Imaging devices>"your camcorder">drivers>driver details. The list of drivers will probably vary from camera to camera, so you must make a list of the relevant drivers used by your camera.

6. From the hidden folder Windows\inf copy msdv.inf into the temporary folder cam_fix.

7. With the exception of msdv.sys copy all the SP2 versions of your camera driver files into cam_fix. You may have to search for them in Windows>Driver Cache>i386 either in the drivers or SP2 cabinet files. If you can't find them there try the system32 folder.

8. Copy the old version of msdv.sys from driver.cab (dated around 17/08/2001) into cam_fix. You may also have to revert to the old version of stream.sys but I didn't find this necessary.

9. Ensure that SP2.cab remains blocked by temporarily renaming it as previously indicated in the RME instructions.

10. Go back into Device Manager and first uninstall your camera drivers (this is the reason for retaining copies of these files in cam_fix), then click on the update drivers button.

11. Repeat the same steps used for installing the Firewire drivers in the RME instructions, this time pointing to the "cam_fix" folder in which you have stored the necessary drivers. XP may question your actions, but you can safely persist. You should then end up with all the new drivers from SP2 and the old msvd.sys file.

12. Finally, rename SP2_dead.cab back to SP2.cab to restore the driver cache security mechanism which will only be invoked if you try to reinstall any of these drivers again.

I hope this will be of some help to all of you who, like me, have been tearing out your hair over this one.

Gagster123
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Joined: Nov 3 2004

hey guys thanks a lot for trying. it seemed very promising, but unfortunately, nothing has worked. jonmac, thx for all that info, hopefully it will help some others out. since mine still does not work, it makes me think its either my motherboard or processors. adobe never says anything about AMD because they test using pentiums. im guessing that they dont mention AMD's because they are so spurratic. some probably work great with premiere, but others might have problems.

i think i have run out of things to try. the one thing that i might do, when i have the time, is totally redo my system. back up my files, and physically redo my system. people keep telling me not to boot of a striped set, so ill probably set it up that way. any tips on the best way to do it with 2 10,000 rpm 74 gig raptors and a 7,200 rpm 250 gig? thankyou

Digitaltitan
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Joined: Dec 30 2004

Hey Buddy,

I am in the same boat as you, and I have found the
solution to our problem. I just hope it works the
same for you. It has to do with the settings in Adobe
Premiere. I am using 6.5, but the settings should be
the same.

Below is the working settings I use for Premiere:

General:

Editing Mode: DV Playback
Timebase: 29.97
Time Display: 30 fps Non Drop-Frame Timecode
-Playback Settings: Output, Playback on DV
Camcorder/VCR - checked. everything else unchecked.

Video:
Compressor: Microsoft DV (NTSC)
Pixel Aspect Ratio: D1/DV NTSC (0.9)
Data Rate: Recompress - checked.

Audio: (im sure this doesn't matter but here are my
settings anyways.)

Rate: 32000 Hz
Interleave 1 seconds
Enhance Rate Conversion: Off
Unchecked - Use logarithmic Audio Fades
Create audio Preview files if there are: (3) or more
active audio tracks, (1) or more audio filters applied

Keyframe and Rendering(this probally doesn't matter
too)
Uncheck everthing, Fields: Lower Field First.

Capture:
DV/IEEE 1394 Capture

I hope this work, save the working settings once you get them working.

Please reply and let me know if it works.

Digitaltitan
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Joined: Dec 30 2004

Sorry, I forgot to add the Export Settings, which can be found under the tab, projects/settings viewer.

Click on export settings:
Here are my settings.

General:

File Type: Microsoft DV AVI
Range: Work Area (Haven't tested Entire Project)
Checked - Export Video, Export Audio, Open when finished.
Embedding Options: None

Video:

Compressor Microsoft DV (NTSC)
Pixel Aspect Ration: D1/DV NTSC (0.9)
Data Rate: Checked - Recompress

Audio:

Rate: 32000Hz
Interleave: 1 Second
Enhance Rate Conversion: Off
Unchecked - Use Logarithmic Audio Fades

Keyframe and Rendering: Same as above.

That should be it.

steveMarland
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Joined: Dec 8 2001

Is it too late to reply to this thread? I have experienced slowness similar to that mentioned in the thread though not during export to tape. I put it down to fragmentation of the source file and a mis-match of file system block sizes to raid disk block sizes. Lets see if I can explain - I have a raid system consisting of a promise controller and 2 IBM 80G drives. The controller is built into the motherboard and the fastTrakLite133 raid builder seems to only allow block sizes of 64K despite 'promising' the option of smaller blocks.

When XP formats a disk it chooses a default file system cluster size unless you tell it otherwise. Mine was set to 4K. So whenever the system wanted to write a 4k cluster to the disk it had to read 64K, alter the 4K it wanted to write, and then write 64K back to the disk. This is obviously very inefficient.

I re-formatted the raid drive from within XP and selected a cluster size of 64K.

This matches the disk much better and avoids lots of thrashing and seems to result in a faster performance.

So in summary I suggest defragmenting your drive before trying to export and check the block size of your raid array compared to the cluster size of your file system.