IPTV - Carry on from thread "How much to charge"

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foxvideo
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Chrome wrote:
I think we should take this to another thread,
Chrome wrote:
I have access to a solution that will pipe 'HD video' (1080p) via a 4mb link worldwide, however like 'proper' IPTV solutions (ie: will support thousands of simultaneous viewers) it is expensive, and cost's about the same as running a sky channel and is dependant on a sophisticated codec (not simply flash based); requiring expensive hardware encoders (£60k plus)

I accept your point, I know you're more at the cutting edge of this stuff than I am with your contacts ;)

But that's part of my point, the technology to do the job properly is well out of the cost reach of the smaller independent producers (us) and it then relies on raising revenue from advertising to fund programme making, which defeats the object of true independence from the larger production companies and money men who control the budgets.

You also raise the point the delivery method you have/know, it relies on a 4Mb connection - a speed most people can't achieve until BT significantly upgrade the current infrastructure.

I've only researched this in a small way, I've been approached twice now by people to look into some way to deliver "a TV station" via the web simply because they've heard it's now possible.

I'm beginning to think it's not going to be a cost effective, workable solution in my remaining work lifetime!

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

Chrome
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foxvideo wrote:
I've been approached twice now by people to look into some way to deliver "a TV station" via the web simply because they've heard it's now possible.

Me too... however they tend to run screaming and shaking their heads when I tell them I can put together a solution for as little as £300-350 a day for a playout system (based on a 12-month contract with 20% payable in advance), running from our location including a 'technician' to maintain/run it. We can of course offer 'live' shows as an add on, but that gets expensive as we need to charge for studio time and staff. However that IS bargain bucket for a solution that WILL support many thousands of simultaneous viewers all of whom may be in say Japan!!

As I said - it's possible, but were not doing it at the moment; it only needs someone with the budget to dip their toe in the water. :D

Interestingly I'm now running on O2 as my ISP at our home (changed over a few weeks ago) via regular BT lines and now getting over 15Mb!! Was with BT for well over 10 years and they said not able to get more than 4Mb... go figure! :confused:

Now I'm very happy at that link... Blistering! I wish I could get that at our operations office which runs like a pig most of the time. :mad:

MAGLINK
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I accept that the technology isnt quite there or accepted yet but up here in the north east we have had a good regional tv output and it actually gets reasonable viewing figures but ITV want all the cream advertising so there move is to be based and make everything in London.

There is a real drive to get something up and running for next year when ITV tyne tees stop all their regional output. Ofcom have done a report on IPTV and the future of PSP and they see it as the ideal platform for the future.

My own consortium is quite advanced now so I cant comment too much on it but it involves some major ex TTTV people and sponsors in the north east. We are starting small as ofcom suggests and will offer streaming and download as options. Most prog times will be around 10-12 mins and there will be a wide range of items all shot and produced in the north east about the north east. Some of them will be infomercials so that people can see what is happening at places such as a well know japaneese car manufacturer or even how your pastie is made. A months arts and music round up and a return of the long lost Farming Outlook will reflect our heritage and culture. I just completed a 12 min video about the first full size steam train that is being built in darlington since the 1940's. There is a theme of passionate people and passionate places which sums up the north east.

There is a real buzz and it is allowing people to be creative without the constraints of normal broadcast delivery, ALL of those producing material are like myself and have had over 25 years broadcast experience so we are not talking about low quality badly made content here.

It is low budget though but that is only for the equipment which is HDV based but pro featured like my Z7 and S270 cameras which are edited on final cut pro with audio dubbing on pro tools LE with dv toolkit 2.

Our test site will be up and running next month and the streaming will be from 512k connections upwards and a 1meg will give good quality real time playback with no local buffering.

In time as the codecs get more efficient and broadband quicker this will allow the picture quality to be uprated but everything is being shot on HDV and mastered to pro res 422 1920x1080i HQ. Wi max will also help distribution at higher speeds.

As I said in previous posts these are very exciting times and with the good will of everyone who loves TV and quality interesting content lets hope that we can offer items that inform, educate and entertain.

Its the 50th aniversary of Tyne Tees TV starting on the 15th Jan next year and that is our official press launch date although we are wanting to use the whole year to roll out the full service.

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Sounds exciting stuff Gary.
Gary/Chrome/Dave
When we get into higher audience volumes / longer programmes that's alot of I/O for the underlying hardware/software.
Can the technology provide for people watching what they want, when they want (like youtube), or does IPTV technology imply everyone has to watch (or download) programmes at pre-set times, like most other TV?

foxvideo
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I think Gary's the one who's more clued up here, sounds like he's got it well sussed. My questions would be more pointed to the actual delivery and viewing.

Even assuming your TeleCo manage to install a usable speed, lets say 8Mb, and I'm watching IPTV in some form or another in the lounge and my teenage son decides to start a large download from his bedroom on his laptop and the wife decides she wants to surf Youtube all at the same time, am I going to suddenly see a drop in performance on my IPTV stream?

It's looking like we'll need a second TeleCo line just for IPTV.....especially if a 'black box' solution for under the TV arrives to deliver our new IPTV programmes. It took BT 4 years to extend the delivery of broadband 4 miles from one exchange already on BB, to our exchange....

OK, I'm lucky, we have 2 lines and our BB speed rarely drops below 6.5 but we are the exception in our area, we're only 200 yds from the exchange.

Until a 'black box' solution arrives, I don't see IPTV taking off. Somehow a family of 4 sitting round a laptop on the coffee table watching something like "Tiger: Spy in the Jungle' at 640 x 480 doesn't quite have the same appeal as feet up, on a sofa watching at a distance of 12 - 15 ft on a 32".

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

MAGLINK
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The streaming we are using will allow thousands to view all at the same time but we dont expect much live type viewing. Most people will watch a clip and if they like it they will have an option to download to local disk in the background or burn it to DVD for viewing later. The content is spread across several servers all over the world so if one gets slow it doesnt affect other content. In time we will flip to our own servers once things get more established.

A lot of our content will be fairly specific so it is more about offering a service to niche markets than trying to compete with what any of the other broadcasters are doing.
Other programming is hobby and lifestyle specific but all material is north east based and there is a certain aspect of using the IPTV to promote the region and its heritage as anyone in the world can view the material. In the tests we have already done and with the pub site it is amazing to see where the hits are coming from. It is world wide and the other beauty for potential advertisers (more prog sponsors) is tat we can tell them the individual ip addresses and country of each viewing. BTW the content on the pub site is very low quality as I only have 512k broadband at home so they are heavily compressed just to allow uploading, the main office has a mega high speed hub so upload of near full HDV is possible. Having said that have a look at the edradour distillery clip and it goes to show how the pro res workflow improves quality, most of the pub site is at i-phone compressed quality.

Once things get more integrated the multi media PC box (Wii or PS) in the corner of your living room or devices such as apple TV will be able to download and save your content locally much like freeview plus and sky HD does with their services.

Of course its all down to bandwidth at the end of the day but our streaming is based on very low relative speeds so if you have multiple users on your hub at the same time it should be OK.

Now once they get the 100meg down a twisted pair reported to have been cracked in the pipeline or 50meg wifi max pots all over the place it will be really interesting.

P.S. Some people say we are mad to try and do this but it is a disgrace what ITV has done to regional TV, they dont deserve to have the right to do any TV never mind public service and all they are doing is filling up their four channels with repeats and pap reality TV. At least we are trying to get back some of regional programming heritage but if we fail at least we had a bloody good go at trying to do something for the next generation of students coming out of Newcastle, Sunderland and Teeside media uni's. We are proposing tie ins with all three to allow students an outlet for their work and possible employment outside of London.

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Thank-you for the added insight Gary.
I looked at the distillery clip, but this plays back stuttered - partly no doubt as I'm using my old win98 pc which I use for surfing.
I fully accept and expect a snowballing of IPTV.
It's niche usage is complimentary to other forms of TV/video.
Apart from viewers watching an ever bigger w/s telly, video on hand held pda's/video phones will mean the viewer usage profile will shift from being those at a static location (home/office) to sat in car/train or most anywhere with time to burn.
I prefer to watch video media on the TV - I don't tend to look at youtube etc.
Though I'm aware I don't represent the populus as I also don't see point in paying for ringtones, when the intention is that you answer the thing.:rolleyes:
However some years back ringtones had the biggest employment expansion in the media arena. Those 09 numbers are now also mega earners. IPTV is now part of that progression. When the airwaves get sorted in the next few years - with more bandwidth availability, will be another boost for video to mobile devices.
..waffle waffle..I'm preaching to the converted..so it's all changing - technology, bluetooth, hotspots, sun spots, viewing habits and hopefully/presumably lot's of work for us.:D

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007

Thanks for your comments Dave, I suppose we are at the crossroads similar to when colour tv came in not everyone will be able to receive it but will in time

IPTV doesnt have to follow the same rules as broadcasters so we dont have to make sure that everyone gets the same whizz bang service but much like the rollout of CD and DVD I think there will be a natural integration of it into peoples viewing hardware.

We now have TV's with freeview, DVD, hard disk and computer ports, the next step is to put a micro board in with wifi or lan to hook it up to the internet or whatever the delivery portal is.

PaulD
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Joined: Aug 31 2002

Hi
Since the BBC's iPlayer VOD is distributed at excellent better-than-web quality (although 4:3) over Virgin's cable, that would be an obvious distribution for your Stottie-vision TTTV replacement.
Sorry, it's pasties, not stotties ;)

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007
PaulD wrote:
Hi
Since the BBC's iPlayer VOD is distributed at excellent better-than-web quality (although 4:3) over Virgin's cable, that would be an obvious distribution for your Stottie-vision TTTV replacement.
Sorry, it's pasties, not stotties ;)

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