JVC GY HD-100 What lenses are compatible with this camera?

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darth norman
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Hello There, I'm thinking about getting a JVC HD-100, reasons are firstly the fact that it's film progressive and mainly because of the option to attach various lenses, can someone tell me exactly which lenses I can attach to this camera, I've even heard that you can attach stills lenses to it, if so can anyone describe their experience of using various lenses on this facility. Finally, can anyone quote me the prices of good lenses for this camera, cheers josh

Alan Roberts
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There are a few lenses designed fror it, plus Canon and Fuji are producing more this year.

JVC have adaptor rings to fit larger format lenses, particularly 1"/2 and 2"/3 format. BUT, you must beware of fitting odd lenses, because these adaptors have no glass, they are just adaptors. This means that even a top-notch HD lens may well look soft on it, simply because the lens is computed for a larger format. This camera has pixels spaced 3.33 microns apart while a 2"/3 HD camera has pixels at 5 microns. So, a 2"/3 HD lens like a Zeiss prime (4 micron disc of confusion) will probably be pretty good on the HD100, but any lesser lens (i.e. any zoom) is going to look a bit on the soft side. Bear in mind that the limiting resolution of the HD100 is 300 lines/mm, that should tell you what makes sense in terms of fitting other lenses (e.g. a 35mm still lens making that resolution would produce 10,800 lines/pic width, and I know of no lens that will do that). A decent 2"/3 SD tv lens will have a disc of confusion of 15 microns or so, so can produce only about 66 lines/mm, a lot less than the camera wants.

Hope that helps.

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Mad_mardy
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you might find this site useful

http://www.jvcpro.co.uk/tech/prohd2/index_html

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System 2: AMD X2 5600, M2NPV-VM, 2GB DDR2, Geforce 8600GT 256 DDR 3, 450GB Total drive space, RTX100 with Premiere Pro 2

Camera's: JVC HD200, JVC HD101, 2X Sony HC62

infocus
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Apart from the resolution factors described by Alan above, there is also the matter of angle of view. On a 2/3" camera, a lens which is (say) 6mm at the wide end is an extremely useful wide angle. That will still be 6mm if mounted on the HD100, but the smaller chip size then means it will be a standard/slight telephoto.

The lens as supplied is (IIRC) 5.5mm (cf 4.5mm for the Z1, and slightly wider still for the HVX200) which would be one of my biggest concerns for general use. That said, unlike the other two it is an interchangeable lens camera, and other "designed for" lenses have been announced, and that includes a lens of 3.5mm at the wide end. Very respectable, even by pro standards - but unfortunately likely to cost much more than the basic camera!

Alan Roberts
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Yes, all true; the HD100 is a professional camera, giving professsional results, so you should expect professional prices. It isn't a toy. Using inappropriate lenses will give significantly inferior results. I'd stick with lenses designed for it, until optical adaptors appear (lens mounts with optical components to change the size of the image it prodcues to conform to the 1"/3 size of the HD100).

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

darth norman
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thanks alan, who are the best suppliers to speak to in regards to this and will they give me a demo?

Alan Roberts
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Have you tried Prestons? They're in the UK, but I suspect ancient Babylon has no camera retailers, we really can't help much when your profile is so unhelpful :)

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

darth norman
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everyone talks about wide angle lens, but lenses for close ups are just as important, what ones can I get, and is it possible to get fish eye lenses and other peculiar shape of lenses, thanks,

Alan Roberts
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Probably not in Babylon.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

asdv
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Alan Roberts wrote:
There are a few lenses designed fror it, plus Canon and Fuji are producing more this year.

JVC have adaptor rings to fit larger format lenses, particularly 1"/2 and 2"/3 format. BUT, you must beware of fitting odd lenses, because these adaptors have no glass, they are just adaptors. This means that even a top-notch HD lens may well look soft on it, simply because the lens is computed for a larger format. This camera has pixels spaced 3.33 microns apart while a 2"/3 HD camera has pixels at 5 microns. So, a 2"/3 HD lens like a Zeiss prime (4 micron disc of confusion) will probably be pretty good on the HD100, but any lesser lens (i.e. any zoom) is going to look a bit on the soft side. Bear in mind that the limiting resolution of the HD100 is 300 lines/mm, that should tell you what makes sense in terms of fitting other lenses (e.g. a 35mm still lens making that resolution would produce 10,800 lines/pic width, and I know of no lens that will do that). A decent 2"/3 SD tv lens will have a disc of confusion of 15 microns or so, so can produce only about 66 lines/mm, a lot less than the camera wants.

Hope that helps.

Alan,

I'm a bit startled by this. Does this mean the x16 Fuji that comes with the HD100 (or indeed any of the lenses on small sensor HDV camcorders) is much better than any HD lenses (prime or zoom) made for 2/3" cameras, in terms of resolving power ? That's quite a feat at this price level, but I guess made possible due to smaller elements, less 'speed', shorter focal length range etc.?

Glad you emphasise the danger of interchanging lenses not designed for particular cameras. I only recently learnt about the chromatic aberration correction that is done in camcorder prism design to reduce the need, and therefore cost, of the lens having to correct it right through it's range.

Abakus make a colour corrector adaptor for long focal length 35mm format stills lenses to be used on camcorders with prism type CCD blocks. Not an issue at shorter focal lengths I understand.

Alan Roberts
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I reckon that you won't get sharper pictures with any lenses other than those designed for this format. And because it's a small market as yet, there aren't many to chose from. That's the price you pay for being an early-adopter.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
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Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

infocus
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asdv wrote:
Alan,

I'm a bit startled by this. Does this mean the x16 Fuji that comes with the HD100 (or indeed any of the lenses on small sensor HDV camcorders) is much better than any HD lenses (prime or zoom) made for 2/3" cameras, in terms of resolving power ?

Be careful here. To resolve a given resolution across the width of the frame, a 1/3" lens must resolve twice the no of lines per mm that a 2/3" lens must - simply because the width of the chip is half that of the 2/3" chip. It's obviously a task made a lot easier by that resolution only being needed for a circle 1/4 the area of that needed for a 2/3" chip. In other words, a 1/3" lens HAS to resolve twice the lines/mm of a 2/3" lens simply to give the same output resolution.

There's no point in making a 2/3" lens sharper than the resolution of the system, and with CCD imaging the only thing it may lead to is aliasing.

Alan Roberts
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Precisely what I was saying in message #2.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

asdv
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Joined: Jun 27 2003

Glad I came across thread. I've been using 35mm format primes and zooms on cameras like Arri Super16, now on my Ike 2/3" SD camcorder, and a while back on a JVC DV500 1/2" camera, without thinking about the format physical res issue.

I'll take much more care lens swapping in future. Looks like budget HD for wildlife is limited to the XLH1 and it's 20x lens for now.

Thanks for the lesson Alan.

Alan Roberts
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't use "wrong" lenses, just that you probably won't get the results you expect. You need to think about it first.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Mick jenner
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Joined: Dec 8 2000

This thread on the JVC100 DVinfo forum may of use to you
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=58493

regards

Mick

Dominic I
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Joined: Jul 11 2001
asdv wrote:
Glad I came across thread. I've been using 35mm format primes and zooms on cameras like Arri Super16, now on my Ike 2/3" SD camcorder, and a while back on a JVC DV500 1/2" camera, without thinking about the format physical res issue.

I'll take much more care lens swapping in future. Looks like budget HD for wildlife is limited to the XLH1 and it's 20x lens for now..

Yes and no!!

As i understand it you can use one of the P+A Technik kit's on the XLH1 with a 35mm Prime Lens. this (as i understand it, it is an optical converter) so there would (should) be no res loss.

"Budget HD" The down side is that the kit costs about £7000 + the £5000 for the XLH1 + the hire of a Prime lens, unless your very rich and can afford to buy one :)

Regards

Dominic

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Alan Roberts
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Make that P+S Technik. It's made in Germany and has a camera lens bayonet on its output, and a lens mount of larger format on its input. A gyrating ground glass screen is at the lens image plane, and relay optics get that image into the camera. So you get the angle and DoF of tghe larger format lens at the expense of around 2 stops loss of light. It works, although I've had varying reports of it durability in real working conditions (one production broke one in two weeks).

There's a significant resolution loss through this device, because of the ground glass screen. On tests I did a couple of months ago for a production company, we found that a Canon HJ21 (2"/3 zoom, decent HD quality) was far sharper than a 35mm Zeiss prime via the P+S, on a Sony HDW750 (meausred using a calibrated zone plate test chart). Don't expect to get super high-res pictures, you won't, all you get is the reduced DoF.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Dominic I
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sorry, slip of the keyboard. Interesting info that, when i talked to them at Video Forum there take on it was with the XLH1 "DOP of 35mm (using Primes) with the quality of a HDW-750 at half the price of a 750". Maybe this is true if you put a sock over the lens of the 750!! :)

Dominic

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Alan Roberts
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Never believe a salesman :)

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

asdv
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If the P&S device still finds customers for 1/3" HD work then it's a timely reminder for me to stop 'worrying' about resolution issues too much. More important that image quality is consistent (all other factors being equal). The success of up-rezzing (?sp) entire shows - whether it's super35 to Imax or camcorder SD to HD - is (sometimes shocking) testament to that.

paktazh
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Hi I want to buy a JVC HD gy camcorder I checked eBay and online I found (
JVC GY-HD200UB ProHD 1081i HD ) and JVC GY-HD200CHU(B) can some one tell me what is the difference between those two

and what is good about JVC GY-HD250U 3CCD because the price on this one is double the price of those two

thanks in advance

ClaireTall
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We have a couple of HD100's and found they give superb quality for the money. The supplied lens is far superior to the Z1 for example. Taken one to Norway and Poland on filming jobs as hand luggage.

Never used any other lenses with it.

They do take a bit of getting used to as a long term Sony user.

Best camera around for standard DV work.

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