New mics

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kat
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Joined: Jan 25 2007

Hi the majority of my work at the moment seems to be talking heads, interviews. I've been doing a few vox pops as well. For the interviews I use a Me66. When it came to the vox pops I knew that as it was in central London I'd get terrible sound, so I borrowed a Beyer M58. I'm not thinking of buying my own handheld mic and possible a lavalier mic too. Just wondered if anyone had any suggestions. If possible I'd like to get ones with XLR on them.

Cheers

Kathy

Wisz
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Joined: Jan 30 2001

Hi Kathy

You could always buy a ME64 or ME65 capsule for your K6.

Richard Wisz Media Services

kat
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Joined: Jan 25 2007

Cheers Wisz,

Would the Me64, work as a hand held?

K

Wisz
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Joined: Jan 30 2001

Hi Kathy

Check the Sennheiser web site

http://www.sennheiser.co.uk/uk/icm.nsf/root/products_sennheiser_microphones_k6

I'm sure John Willett will be along shortly, with advice.

Richard Wisz Media Services

Gavin Gration
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Joined: Jul 29 1999

For really busy places I'll use a Sennheiser e845 with a foam shield.

It's a vocal mic and as such needs to be shoved right in the talents face - but it rejects most background noise - works inside nightclubs, out in street etc.

AND.....they're fairly cheap

AND.....they're dynamic so will work just fine on the 1st gen plug-on wireless transmitter units.

AND......they're very tough.

If you really don't want to buy anything then point the ME66 up under the talents chin & get in close - that way you should reject most other noise.

kat
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Joined: Jan 25 2007

Okay cool, I'm out filming today, but will certainly have a look into these when I get back.

Kathy

John Willett
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Joined: Jun 1 2001

For interview work with a handheld mic. you need the Sennheiser MD 42 (omni), or the MD 46 (cardioid).

Both these are specifically designed for reporter work and the omni version is normally the preferred one.

Alternatively, get the ME 62 omni head for your K 6.

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

HallmarkProductions
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Joined: Aug 29 1999

We have used the Beyer m58 for ages, including this week's UEFA live Champions League matches.
They are very good value, and excellent quality.

Chris
Time for a new signature now...

kat
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Joined: Jan 25 2007

Some good suggestions, I'll let you know what I decide on.

kat
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Joined: Jan 25 2007

I went for John's suggestion in the end and very happy. This week I was filming at a very loud party and doing some vox pops. I could barely hear myself talking, but the mic picked up the voices perfectly. The music was still there, but only in the background. Also some of the people I interviewed, got a bit fidgety with the microphone, but the mic didn't pic up any handling sounds. Great suggestion, so thanks,

K

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Hi Kat,
John suggested 3 - which did you go for?

kat
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Joined: Jan 25 2007

Ah sorry, meant to say the MD42. His first suggestion.

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Thanks Kat - I'm pleased it turned out so well for you in a difficult environment.

kat
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Joined: Jan 25 2007

Yes, even monitoring the levels at the time, I almost gave up. But very impressive results.

K

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005
John Willett wrote:
For interview work with a handheld mic. you need the Sennheiser MD 42 (omni), or the MD 46 (cardioid).

Both these are specifically designed for reporter work and the omni version is normally the preferred one.

Alternatively, get the ME 62 omni head for your K 6.

I have just bought the MD42 and I'm running a test on it in comparison to an ME66 using a Sony Z1E - with surprisingly odd results.

With ME66 camera mounted about 9 inches from my mouth and MD42 handheld approx 2 inches from mouth, the MD42 was picking up a weaker signal.

To get similar signal strength I set ME66 to 5 and MD42 to 9.
Both using phantom power.

To elimanate other possible different settings in the camera I swapped them over - channel1/2 - and MD42 still weaker (recording level for both set to 5).
I also note if MD42 is angled 30 degrees away from mouth the signal level drops, which surprises me that this is an omni-directional mike.
There is nothing in the manual about optimal distance from subject for intended use.

John/anyone else - please can you explain why my directional mike appears to be performing better than a 'reporters' mike in a (mock) reporting situation.

John Willett
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Joined: Jun 1 2001

The MD 42 is a low output dynamic mic. and the K6 is a high output condenser mic.

The level differences are normal and to be expected - just increase the gain for the MD 42 - this is normal.

As the MD 42 is a dynamic mic. you do *not* need any phantom power - you will increase battery life if you switch this off.

The directivity of the MD 42 is due to the size of the microphone - all omnis do this. The larger the microphone the more it gets directional - but this only happens at high frequencies where the size of the microphone body becomes a significant figure compared to the wavelength of the sound.

The diagram below gives an idea as to what happens at higher frequencies (but please note that this is *not* an MD 42 - I don't have access to the MD 42 diagram at the moment).

[IMG]http://www.sennheiser.co.uk/uk/icm.nsf/resources/C1256F140044E469C1256F4E005D7A69/$File/02857_pd.jpg[/IMG]

I hope this helps explain it.

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Thank-you for your swift reply John.

I wasn't aware phantom is n/a - so noted.

I have the pick-up pattern for the MD42 and note it's directional bias for the higher frequencies.

Can you give any guidance on it's use / good working practice for distance from mouth for reporter speaking themselves and holding for interview reply.

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007

Just to add a lot of the broacasters also use the electrovoice RE50 it is an omni interview mic and is very well built, the 635a is also a good int mic but the re50 is a good size for handholding.

John Willett
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Dave R Smith wrote:
Can you give any guidance on it's use / good working practice for distance from mouth for reporter speaking themselves and holding for interview reply.

Normally hand-held and vertical - probably with your hand at waist-height.

The distance between you and the interviewee should be at the distance to give equal sound level - eg: if the interviewee speaks a little quiet it is closer to him/her than you.

*DON'T* wave it around as you see some untrained reporters doing on the TV. ;) :p

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Thank-you John. I won't be presenting myself - but good point about getting interviewer to adjust distance between interviewer and interviewee to manitain consistant level - and save time in post.
I was expecting your reply to say anywhere between 2 - 9inches from mouth, as closer the better(2 inches), but avoiding pop's and too much modulation (so back off to 9 inches).
Hand at waist height sounds a bit distant - but it's a long mike and trying it (I'm 6') that's 9 inches.

>*DON'T* wave it around as you see some untrained reporters doing on the TV.
Yes, I emphasized this to a PR lady at Excel exhibition a few weeks ago - but she kept forgetting it's there to pick up sound and not to augment hand gestures.:rolleyes:

I'm still a bit concerned about the comparatively low signal compared to ME66 - and envisage having to boost it in post-production - is such boosting to be expected for this mike?

I may be using it extensively over the next 3 days, so your feedback is a great help.

John Willett
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Dave R Smith wrote:
I'm still a bit concerned about the comparatively low signal compared to ME66 - and envisage having to boost it in post-production - is such boosting to be expected for this mike?

The K6/MK66 is a condenser mic. with a high output - the MD62 is a normal dynamic mic. It is normal to have a difference of about 10dB between a dynamic and condenser.

This is normal for all dynamic mics, not just the MD62.

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Thank-you John - I understand the difference from your previous reply - I'll have to see what it's like in the field for now - but can you comment on:
'.. envisage having to boost it in post-production - is such boosting to be expected for this mike?'

Rob James
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Joined: Jun 26 2001

Hi Dave, it's all down to gain. Low gain doesn't mean a bad mic. Quite often the converse. The question is whether the mic input you are using is ideally suited (and adjusted) to the mic. This is one occasion when paying attention to specs. can really pay off. I've noticed that most camcorders are not especially sensitive. Ergo, to get the best out of low output mics you may well need a pre-amp. Without this you run the risk of increased noise due to using all the available gain on the camera. (I.e. not the mic's fault, just a case of mismatching.) Small wonder that location mixers are so popular in pro circles.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Thank-you Rob.
Unless you had something small in mind, the addition of a pre-amp to a 'roving reporter' out on location will inhibit other aspects.

Rob James
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Joined: Jun 26 2001

Dave, what it amounts to is this: if your camera does not have particularly sensitive mic amps then choose a mic with an output to suit unless you can tolerate the extra annoyance of a preamp/mixer.

I could go into a discussion of gain ranging and amplification versus attenuation but the bottom line is, if you want to feed a mic straight into a camera then you must match its output characteristics (level and impedence) to the camera input(s). Otherwise you will get either excessive noise (from preamps working at maximum gain) or distortion (from overloaded inputs).

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

Dave R Smith
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Rob James wrote:
Dave, what it amounts to is this: if your camera does not have particularly sensitive mic amps then choose a mic with an output to suit unless you can tolerate the extra annoyance of a preamp/mixer.

Thank-you for your reply Rob.
This thread generally gives the thumbs up to the MD42 and I'm not aware of my Z1E being comparatively lower sesnsitivity to other cameras.

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Having used the MD42 over the last few days - some feedback:
No problem with levels ( I guess my sample test speaking to myself was unrealistic).
London balcony - interupted by passing jet, but filtered well - unlike ME66 and no popping etc experienced.

Only downside was when interviewee replied or cut in before interviewer had chance to re-direct mike, so levels will need tweaking in post (or switch to ME66).
Thank-you Rob, Kat, John, JGN - it was a good buy.

John Willett
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Dave R Smith wrote:
Only downside was when interviewee replied or cut in before interviewer had chance to re-direct mike

That is one of the reasons you *don't* "redirect the mic."!

You hold it still between the interviewer and interviewee at the point of equal level and don't wave it about at all (as I said earlier ;) ).

You just need to teach the interviewer how to use a mic. :rolleyes:

Dave R Smith wrote:
- it was a good buy.

Of course it was ;)

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

Dave R Smith
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Thank-you John.

Michael.Bradshaw
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Joined: Aug 1 2005

i have an old akg c1000 condensor that i used for interviews. It's getting a bit tatty an doesn't look well on camera. I have a sennheiser skp100 and skp500 that i use with it.

What would people recommend as a replacement and also what do you think about windshields or something to reduce plosives?
had the akg for ages so don't mind spending money if it's worth it.

M.

EVGA sr-2/ 2x x5850 win7 x64. Editing in Ppro CS5 Shooting on Sony Z7, nex-VG10

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001

Dave R Smith, you said...I have just bought the MD42 and I'm running a test on it in comparison to an ME66 using a Sony Z1E - with surprisingly odd results...

Why I ask is because I was thinking of buying this mic for interviews http://www.dv247.com/invt/8706/
I have used this mic and I think its very good. I thought by your post that the sound from the MD42 could be louder.

Whats your views now.

Tony

Tony.
Asrock Z68 Extreme7 --i7-2700K --Edius Pro7--HDStorm+ --16GB Kingston HyperX--GTX 560Ti--AX850 PSU--MxM PCI-e Reader--Win8.1 Pro 64bit

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Hi Tony,
My 'test' was perhaps false - talking to yourself in a room I was perhaps speaking at alower volume than in typical dialogue - so my concerns over level was unfounded - as mentioned in the later post.

Dave R Smith wrote:
Having used the MD42 over the last few days - some feedback:
No problem with levels ( I guess my sample test speaking to myself was unrealistic).
London balcony - interupted by passing jet, but filtered well - unlike ME66 and no popping etc experienced.

Only downside was when interviewee replied or cut in before interviewer had chance to re-direct mike, so levels will need tweaking in post (or switch to ME66).
Thank-you Rob, Kat, John, JGN - it was a good buy.

I also used in for a Hotel room interview, where it performed well (though not compared scientifically to other mikes - just a gut re-action.

On the balcony ii/v mentioned in the quotes, there was a distinct difference in level depending upon whether the (non-pro) interviewer was pointing mike to herself, interviewee or in the middle in a 'balnced' position as per John Willet's comment.
I'm no sound expert, but my view differs to John's, given this difference of levels from centre position to pointing at speaker. Pointing at speaker will mean the intrusive plane noise is comparatively less in the final mix, though I acknowledge that in the Hotel room situation - where background noise can be controlled (by shouting 'quiet folks') the mikes balanced / central un-wavered position is good.

I think it was Kat that used it in a noisey room (bustling with other conversations for vox pops) where it performed well. This is one of the reasons I bought it, though haven't used it in that scenario yet. In choosing the mike you may also wish to think about whether you will use it 'wired' or in conjunction with a radio transmitter, as this may mean another mike is a better buy. When i was at videoforum the sennheisr rep pointed me to the SKP100, but I can't remember the exact reason.

I still miss Optex where you and I could test gear in the showroom, rather than get 3rd party opinion before mail order.

HTH

mooblie
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Dave R Smith wrote:
.......When i was at videoforum the sennheisr rep pointed me to the SKP100, but I can't remember the exact reason.....

The SKP100 is a transmitter unit that can be plugged onto the end of a self-powered XLR mic (like the K6+ME6X+AA cell) and essentially makes it wireless - to be received by a EK100. (NB: it won't power a mic that needs phantom power - for that you need the SKP500.)

Martin - DVdoctor in moderation. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Thanks mooblie - I have the rep's card in front of me with SKP100 written on it.
Like all their products, their names lack imagination...as do many technical products.
I would expect a transmitter to be prefixed TR* and receiver REC* etc and mike MK* etc...waffle waffle..;)

John Willett
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Dave R Smith wrote:
Like all their products, their names lack imagination...as do many technical products.
I would expect a transmitter to be prefixed TR* and receiver REC* etc and mike MK* etc...waffle waffle..;)

:D :D :D

So, you expect a German company to have named in English :D

It DOES all mean something, you know.

MD = Microphone Dynamc
HD = Headphone Dynamic
MKE = Microphone Kondenser Electret

All transmitters are prefixed "S" meaning "sender"
Receivers by "E" meaning "Empfanger" = receiver
"K" = kompack = small

SK = small transmitter (sender kompact)
SKM = small transmitter with microphone (sender kompact with microphone - ie: handheld transmitter)
SKP = small transmitter, plug-on (senter kompact plug-on)

EM = receiver, mains
EK = receiver, kompact

etc.................

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

Dave R Smith
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Joined: May 10 2005

Tankershun John.
James May/Top gear made me laugh when the owners of a new German car on test told him 'nine fingerpoken'.
Auf Weidersein.