NEX 10 or XHA1

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fom
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Joined: Feb 21 2003

Hi all,

Quick question... most of the videos I produce are short films and thus criteria such as a cinematic look are important to me.

I currently have a Canon XHA1 but I am thinking of selling that and getting a Sony NEX10 because of its interchangeable lenses, what does everyone think, good move, or bad?

I would prefer the Panasonic AF101, but that is well out of my price range, hence the idea of the cheaper Sony.

Technically I can't draw between them, as they are very different beasts?!

Any thoughts or opinions will be most appreciated.

steve
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Have you tried borrowing a DSLR such as a Canon 550D to play with? These shallow DOF setups are a whole new experience and the 'cinematic effect' doesn't just rely on that.

Steve

jgould
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Joined: Mar 28 2005

Ordered a nex 10 to replace my XHA1 and sent it back as any panning results in very jerky footage, even worse than the canon 7d. For straight ahead shots though it was very good

col lamb
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Joined: Jan 2 2010

With my Canon 7D I do not get jerky video footage.

Anyone who makes video movies seriously should learn the pros and cons about their kit and allow for it in their shooting. They should also learn the correct techniques of using their kit and setting it up, failure to do so will result in poor quality footage and that is true of any priced camcorder/camera.

The Canon 550D will produce great footage if you allow for the moire effect and the progressive recording that the camera uses. I my opinion there are many here do not like cameras with video capabilities because they are only interested in broardcast type kit even though a DSLR in the right hands can produce stunning video. So please allow for that in any other posts.

With a DSLR you are not finished with the camera as you need a decent mike plus a attachment that you fit to the LCD screen which is your only method of viewing video. This is the Zacuto Z finder and that alone retails about £300. Then there are the lenses.....plenty of choice there.

I am not biased one way or the other in the DSLR v dedicated camcorder debate as I also have a Panasonic AG HMC 151 and a small Sony TG3 which both gives me great results and they are a joy to use, with the 151 it is far easier to get the quality of shot that I want than it is with the 7D, with any DSLR you have to work at it to get the quality you want. They are definately NOT point and shoot.

The 151 does have a little brother in the AG HMC 41 which is very well priced so you may also like to consider this model.

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

infocus
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Joined: Jul 18 2003
fom wrote:
I currently have a Canon XHA1 but I am thinking of selling that and getting a Sony NEX10 because of its interchangeable lenses, what does everyone think, good move, or bad?

The main plus for the NEX10 is that it enables you to get a shallow depth of field very easily, because of the big (for video) sensor.

In other respects, it loses out to most dedicated video cameras. Have you thought about the lack of a servo zoom lens? It's marketed and priced as an upmarket consumer camera, and intended to do both video and stills reasonably well, but in that order, unlike a vDSLR.

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Fom - if the short films you produce aren't of a run 'n' gun nature (where you simply cannot cock up a rapidly unfolding scenario) then I'm pretty sure the NEX will give you wonderful footage that will have quite a different look to the XH footage you've been getting up to now.

I've tried shooting 'as they happen' movies on the Panasonic GH1 and I tell you, it's a lot more difficult than on my NX5. A lot more difficult.

tom.

fom
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Joined: Feb 21 2003
Thank you

Thank you all for your responses so far.

On doing more research I noticed the feature infocus mentiones regarding the lack of rocker zoom, which was suprising and a bit of a let down. Whilst this is a minus for me, and as an answer to Tom, I use a dolly and jib in the shorts I produce and very little gun and run, therefore I am willing to sacrifice this feature for the benefit of the cinematic look the new Sony gives.

I also notice the NEX10 is CMOS, which I know a lot of cameras are these days, but I've never been a fan myself, I was brought up with the '3 chip CCD' is best ideology, and I've always found Sony CMOS chips to give a 'muddy' look, where green grass looks a shade of yellow (my old Sony V1 did anyway). Does anyone else have an opiion as to the good old 3 chips versus the new single larger CMOS chips.

jgould, did you try different shutter speeds?

At this point in time I shifting my thoughts of purchase, I think I may sell my little HV30, and Redrock M2 in favour of the NEX10 (with a small bank loan also!). This would leave me with the XHA1 for corporate type stuff, and the Sony for my movies.

Can anyone tell me also, if I can use my Canon DSLR EOS lenses with the NEX10, I keep coming across this Canon adapter item, but it never provides any details.

Many thanks once again all, great bb!

infocus
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Joined: Jul 18 2003

As far as using other lenses with a camera like the NEX10, just bear in mind that whilst you may be able to physically fit them (and the image will be fine) ask if it's possible to control iris, focus etc. Such things used to be a simple matter of turning a ring on the barrel - often now they are controlled via motors driven by inputs from the camera. If your lens is such, then even if OK optically, can it be controlled?

The answer will differ lens to lens, camera to camera, and I can't give precise answers, but just bear it in mind. Obviously, it's likely to give best results with the lenses specifically designed for it.

Barry Hunter
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Joined: Nov 30 2001

I understand you can get an adapter to use the Sony/Minolta Lenses, around £150 I think.

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

jgould
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Joined: Mar 28 2005

Every setting was used to try and get smooth footage but to no avail. Barry Hunter also tried one out with the same results

fom
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Joined: Feb 21 2003

I can't believe it!!!!

I've just been to the local Sony Centre who not only don't have the NEX10 in stock, but can't get one for me to look at, great service, not!!!

As before I part with the best part of £2000, I want to trail the beast, I thought I'd try Jessops over the road, and experienced the same reception.

Oh come on, if I can't try (or buy) a Sony camera from a Sony store, or anywhere else on the high street, how many of these things are going to get sold!

Can you imagine going into the Apple store and being told, sorry sir we don't stock ipods, and we can't get you one in either!!!

Barry Hunter
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Joined: Nov 30 2001

Take my advice, forget it!

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

paultv
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Joined: May 16 2002

Whilst the NX10 can produce good quality images - you need to add some lens' such as Nikon F1.4 or similar Canons - the stock lens whilst providing a powerful zoom 200mm jobby, it's max aperture of 3.5 hinders the lower light image capability. The 24mb avchd is OK but not great - whilst the huge 26db gain allows some shooting in lousy light - it really is too noisy as is the 0db setting in my opinion - almost impossible to get anywhere near clean blacks.

The lack of 50i (it is simulated from 25p with each field containing the same data) means you are always shooting 25p, so fast pans are crap - you have to treat this as a "film" camera, and make sure your movements and your subject movements are controlled - as in ye film days - with no ND filters, you need to buy a vari nd - this works well for outdoor work, it gives you a "manual" iris on the front of the lens - also a 1.4 Caprock rids your images of moire from the large sensor.

The bigest problem is no focus aid on the small viewfinder, the fact that this thing forgets your set up when you switch to still mode and back to filming mode, changes are translated making this an absolutely useless camera for run and gun - the "take photo" button is in the worst and most useless place possible, there's no remote which is a bit of a drag - and as far as the auto zoom is concerened, no serious operator uses power zoom anyway - ugly and cheap looking - should be banned! anyway the stock lens is pretty accurate and has a good feel.

All in all, this camera is not for the holiday crowd, nor for weddings, but as a pro operator, I'm finding it usefull, especially the stills aspect, it's tiny, runs for hours on one fat battery and a 32gb card, I take it everywhere and collect great 2nd camera material where my Ex1 is too huge and heavy - like up a mountain - you probably have to spend another £1000 on lens' and adapters/filters to get set - still cheaper by far than an DSLR - remember this thing will record video for 12 hours and not overheat - most DSLR's manage 10 minutes.

Enjoy or run a mile !!

Happy Xmas all

Paul

SimonMW
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Joined: Nov 16 2004
Quote:
so fast pans are crap

Not really. Medium speed pans are an issue. Fast pans and slow pans aren't a problem.

Quote:
and make sure your movements and your subject movements are controlled

I never understand where this idea comes from. Everyone seems to treat shooting progressive like treading on eggs. In normal shooting situations you don't have to be careful of anything. It's only when using cheesy news style shooting that you might have to be careful.

As far as I am concerned shooting film style promotes good, solid, disciplined camerawork.

I'm not riling on you specifically, Paul, just mentioning a few things that come up a lot on forums that you brought up in your post.

fom
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Joined: Feb 21 2003

Oooo, the feedback doesn't sound good here, not true interlaced, jerky motion, manual zoom only, can't even get to trail one!

The only thing that catches my attention stil is that all the test footage on YouTube using the NEX10 looks great.

Hmm, my only other option (I guess) is the new Panasoni 101, but that's well out of my price rang at something like £5k, hmmm, I'm not sure what my next move is now, the Sony looks like a go no go now for sure, but many thanks to all those that have posted in this thread, its been a big help.

Steamage
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Joined: Nov 11 2003

Hi fom - this is just my personal view on the choices at the moment...

Unless there's something specific that you want to do in the next few months that is difficult with the XHA1 and simple with the NEX10, I'd say stick with the XHA1. Development of large-sensor video cameras, and of DSLRs with video capability, is clearly quite rapid at the moment. Currently, DSLR-type cameras seem to be a useful addition to an ordinary video camera, but not a suitable replacement. This may change during the next year or so. If you can afford both, that's fine. If not, I'd stick to a normal camcorder until there's something in your price range that does both jobs well enough to only need one camera and not need a load of extra accessories.

Mark @ Steam Age Pictures - Steam trains on video in aid of railway preservation societies. Latest release: "Mainline 2012, LMS Locomotives", on DVD or Bluray Disc.