Sennheiser Headphones

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HallmarkProductions
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I am looking to get some new headphones - I know that a lot of soundmen choose Sennheiser HD25 (cost around £120). I intend to use set for monitoring direct from camera headphone socket (small jack), or occasionally via our AD ENG mixer (large jack).

Questions
1/ What is difference between HD25 & HD25SP (apart from £60)
2/ Do both sets come with mini/large jack so that they can be switched
3/ I prefer coiled to straight lead - is there a choice?
4/ Anyone got any further suggestions on alternative headphones

many thanks

Chris

Chris
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DAVE M
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HallmarkProductions
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Thanks Dave, appreciated. I think I will see if I can get hold of both pairs - will try and see the physical differences too.

Chris
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mooblie
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I'm sure here (on the the archive) John W has previously described the differences between the HD25, HD25SP and the British Airways "Concorde" HD25 versions that crop up on eBay.

I'm sure that, unsurprisingly, the most expensive were the best. :D

Martin - DVdoctor in moderation. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Dave R Smith
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Hi Chris,
I have the 201's, bought as part of the package with ME66 kit.
I tested before purchase and was happy.
However even though they are 'closed' I find it difficult in use to discern the difference between the headphone sound and 'real sound' from the presenter/speaker - who is typically 3-5m away.
Filming a gas mains being removed from the middle of the road in The Strand/London, I had problems hearing my presenter's radio mike at all with traffic passing either side.
It actually turned out excelent sound, but was unable to monitor it with so much noise around. The visual 'sound levels' on camera didn't tell me if I was recording traffic noise or vocal.
So perhaps your test should include their ability to block environmental sound as well as dynamic range etc.

Mark M
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Here's the thread Mooblie was mentioning:
http://forums.dvdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=33122

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runner
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Funnily enough this complements a conversation I was having today... can anyone offer a comparison of Sennheiser 'phones with Beyer DT100s?

HallmarkProductions
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I was also looking at the beyer ones, but in pictures they look a bit bulky. Thanks for the link to the previous thread - I had searched HD25, and had also looked back through some of John's posts, but had not found anything.

The Concorde 25SP are still often seen on Ebay, but I wonder if they are fakes?
From what I could see, John never answered the technical point - would the HD25s outperform a K6 microphone setup, thus invalidating the need to go for the more expensive headphones?

Dave Smith - that is a very good point. I have often found that headphones do not separate the user from the ambient noise, and it can be very difficult to know whether you are hearing via the set or "through the air".

Chris
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foxvideo
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DT100's do isolate you from ambient sound but not 100%, I also find them hot and uncomfortable after more than an hour or so.

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

runner
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Isn't isolation what a sound recordist seeks? How can you make mic positioning judgements if you can't be sure that pretty much everything you're hearing is from the mic, and not through the air?

But all that aside, do the Sennheisers sound better? Given that DT100s cost 68 quid (the 400R version) and they're pretty robust and all the spares are available, I'm pushed to understand why anyone would spend over a ton on something else. Maybe it is just comfort.... but if they were good enough for whoever recorded the sermon on the mount why don't they fit modern ears?

DAVE M
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I've used DT100s and varaiations on the same design for cans and talkback for years and they're pretty good.

I'd prefer more isolation at the expense of better reproduction (within limits!)

HallmarkProductions
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I have also been looking at the Sennheiser HD280 Pro (black, not the silver ones) and think they may be a good bet. I am a bit concerned that they could be too bulky for use by a camera operator monitoring sound off the camera jack though - may bash into side of camera. It appears that they are very good at separating the ambient sound from the monitored sounds though.
Where is Mr Willett - I am sure his input will be valuable?

Chris
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Dave R Smith
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The HD25's are normally spottable (including ebay pics) by the twin head band.

extract of link:
'these headphones perform
exceptionally well in high-noise environments, e.g. ENG, sound reinforcement, studio monitoring and audio equipment testing. The capsule is rotatable for one-ear listening. '

So you can use them on one ear, like a cool avanapper DJ.

Alan Craven
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The HD 280 Pro is very good, but as you suspect, rather bulky. They do provide excellent isolation, which is what matters here. I use them for all my sound editing, and I can hardly hear the RAF trainers who are coming in to land at the local training station, even though they fly right over the house at 250 ft.

HallmarkProductions
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This thread is proving really useful to me, so thanks everyone. I have spoken to Absolute Music, who have also been very helpful. it seems the best bet is one pair of HD25 for the camera, and the 280s for the ENG mixer (I actually do need 2 sets of headphones).

Still interested in hearing further opinions though.
Chris

Chris
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John Willett
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HallmarkProductions wrote:
I am looking to get some new headphones - I know that a lot of soundmen choose Sennheiser HD25 (cost around £120). I intend to use set for monitoring direct from camera headphone socket (small jack), or occasionally via our AD ENG mixer (large jack).

Questions
1/ What is difference between HD25 & HD25SP (apart from £60)
2/ Do both sets come with mini/large jack so that they can be switched
3/ I prefer coiled to straight lead - is there a choice?
4/ Anyone got any further suggestions on alternative headphones

1)
HD 25-1 are the ENG/video headphones - 70-Ohms - 1.2m cable with rt.angled mini-jack.
HD 25-13 are the DJ headphones - 600-Ohms - 3m cable with 1/4" jack.
HD 25SP are the downrated simple version - 85-Ohms - 3m cable with 1/4" jack.

2)
Only the HD 25-1 comes with a mini-jack and includes an adaptor to 1/4".

3)
Straight is better for camera use - providing the cable is the correct length, which the HD 25-1 has (coiled cables tend to be over heavy).

4)
No, the HD 25-1 is the best option ;)

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

John Willett
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DAVE M wrote:
http://www.sennheiser.co.uk/uk/icm.nsf/root/02976#
http://www.sennheiser.co.uk/uk/icm.nsf/root/03759#

The SPs look as if they have a wider response/range

NO!

The HD 25-1 / -13 are 16 Hz to 22 kHz

The HD 25SP are 30 Hz to 16 kHz

So the HD 25-1 / -13 obviously have the wider and better response.

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

John Willett
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runner wrote:
Funnily enough this complements a conversation I was having today... can anyone offer a comparison of Sennheiser 'phones with Beyer DT100s?

The Beyer DT 100s (and I do have an old pair) are good tracking headphones, but I would not use them for monitoring. I found them very uncomfortable because they made my ears sweat and I could not wear them for more than 20-minutes at a time. I stopped using them when I got my first Sennheisers.

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

John Willett
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HallmarkProductions wrote:
John never answered the technical point - would the HD25s outperform a K6 microphone setup, thus invalidating the need to go for the more expensive headphones?

I have never been asked this question - which is why you can't find an answer.

The HD 25s are excellent analytical headphones that enable you to hear detail in what you are recording - whatever the microphone.

For what you are doing, the HD 25-1s are the perfect headphones (and better than the HD 280-Pro).

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

John Willett
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runner wrote:
IBut all that aside, do the Sennheisers sound better? Given that DT100s cost 68 quid (the 400R version) and they're pretty robust and all the spares are available, I'm pushed to understand why anyone would spend over a ton on something else. Maybe it is just comfort.... but if they were good enough for whoever recorded the sermon on the mount why don't they fit modern ears?

Yes the HD 25 sound better - the spares availability is the same as for the DT 100s.

DT 100s were never the headphone of choice for the video world - the old standard was the Beyer DT 48 - until the HD 25 came along and became the new standard for sound recordists.

Beyer do much better headphones than the DT 100 - the old DT 100s were robust with replaceable spares which is why they were used so much in the past - I still can't wear them for more than 20-minutes, though.

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

John Willett
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HallmarkProductions wrote:
I have also been looking at the Sennheiser HD280 Pro (black, not the silver ones) and think they may be a good bet. I am a bit concerned that they could be too bulky for use by a camera operator monitoring sound off the camera jack though - may bash into side of camera. It appears that they are very good at separating the ambient sound from the monitored sounds though.

The HD 25 are better for a camera operator (which is the purpose they were designed for in the first place) - especially as one ear is swivelable to get it out of the way.

Personally, I prefer the 25 over the 280. I have both and have never used the 280s since I bought them.

HallmarkProductions wrote:
Where is Mr Willett - I am sure his input will be valuable?

I have been away from the PC - I'm here now. ;)

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

HallmarkProductions
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"The HD-25's have about an octave's better frequency response at the bottom end (16 hz vs 30 hz) and a fair bit at the top too (22khz vs 16khz). But then again, how sensitive is the microphone one is shooting with... I use a K6/ME66 combination, which is rated at 30 - 20,000 Hz. Would there be an any advantage for me with the HD-25 non SP, or would, in fact, the SP version have a wide enough frequency response to be able to hear everything the K6/ME66 could pick up?
Or am I being too simplistic here?!

Mark"

John - thanks for the brilliant reply - I reckon you missed this from mark though, during the thread from 2005 which is referred to earlier in this posting. Looks like I will get the 25 as you recommend. As you don't need your 280s, maybe you would like to sell them to me cheaply!

Chris
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Michael.Bradshaw
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having used dt100s and then buying the hd25s i recommend the sennheisers in terms of quality and comfort.

When i first got them I though they looked a bit flimsy but they have lasted longer than anyt other pair of headphones I've owned by a long bit.

I found the best price was from Thomann

they're just under £100 at the minute which is pretty good. This is where I often buy stuff and they are very good.

Michael.

EVGA sr-2/ 2x x5850 win7 x64. Editing in Ppro CS5 Shooting on Sony Z7, nex-VG10

runner
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Very interesting, thanks for the comments.

DAVE M
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yes - sorry.

Got carried away with finding the specs and sort of forgot which was which wen talking about the sp version. (I sort of automatically assumed that the better one would be named the "sp" even though I knew it wasn't!)

On the matter of sweaty ears - a gent's hanky can be sewn up into a neatish pair of covers that can be slipped on and off & washed. I've even used kleenex on my talkback system in a really hot venue.

HallmarkProductions
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Went to Absolute Music in Poole and got a pair of 25 and 280. Thought the 25 would be best for camera, as John says, and 280 for soundman too - I liked the way they completely(ish) isolate you from surroundings, and they felt very comfortable.

Chris
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steve
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If its not sacrilegious in the midst of a Sennheiser thread, how do those being discussed compare with what some believe are the industry standard phones for video work, the Sony MDR7056?

Steve

HallmarkProductions
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I have not seen any of the Sony headphones when i have been working with soundmen, so cannot really comment on them - but I would have thought these are not the industry standard, based on my small experience. It seems to me that everyone I work with has Sennheiser - but I do not claim to be an expert.

That said, all comments are welcome - it is not exclusively for Sennheiser, this thread!

Chris
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steve
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OK, I did read the industry standard bit on an US site so maybe that's where it applies. Maybe their sound appeals to american ears. THey were described as having very good external sound exclusion also.

Steve

Lusky
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I was going for the Sennheiser but ended up getting the Sony V900HD, very impressed. the sound isolation is excellent along with comfort, which with the size of ears is important.

JP

John Paul

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For comfort nothing beats the Beyerdynamics DT250 if you've got to wear them for hours. (Sorry John) Certainly the standard amongst ENG soundies who often have to wear the bloody things for ages and ages, oh and they're chillingly accurate too! Certainly a worthy successor to the DT48 which was de-rigeur for video and film recordists until recently (just bleedin' uncomfortable after a couple of hours).

(I'm not saying that the Sennheisers aren't good... they are brilliant, just that the Beyers are just as good and very comfortable)