Sony CX160 1080/50p

11 replies [Last post]
lowlight
Offline
Joined: Dec 6 2010

I’ve been checking out full HD 50p camera options and was looking at the forthcoming Sony DSC-HX100. Bridge camera size with articulated LCD and 30X zoom. A 7.75mm sensor crammed with 16 megapixels, and no filter thread or mic jack, so doesn't quite fit my needs. Sony are also bringing out a CX160 camcorder with a mic and headphone jack (and 16GB built-in). Tiny 4.5mm sensor but 4200K gross pixels so less densely packed than the HX100. The cost for the CX160 is temptingly cheap at around £415 considering you get 1080/50p and mic/headphone jacks. The CX160 is a dedicated camcorder and so I assume should reduce most of the compact/DSLR-type video problems you can sometimes get (aliasing etc). Is it possible to get good full HD video out of such a tiny 4.5mm sensor? For the money it sounds good value. I would actually need to downscale the video in post to 720/50p for blu-ray compatibility. Wondering if anyone has views on this.

Claire
Offline
Joined: Apr 28 2001

Hi, don't know anything about the camera but from experience with my TM900 if you intend downscaling 1080/50P to 720/50P for blue-ray be careful about what method you use. Most NLE's don't downscale well and it might look much softer than the original.

Claire

lowlight
Offline
Joined: Dec 6 2010
Claire wrote:
Hi, don't know anything about the camera but from experience with my TM900 if you intend downscaling 1080/50P to 720/50P for blue-ray be careful about what method you use. Most NLE's don't downscale well and it might look much softer than the original.

Thanks Claire. Funny you should mention that because I have started checking out the less expensive NLEs that can handle 1080/50p. Sony Vegas HD 10 doesn't but Edius Neo 3 can. However, I don't know whether you have to downscale on the timeline as you go by importing clips into a pre-set 720p format , or if you downscale when you have finished the 10180/50p editing and do the rendering. The main reason for me using 720/50 is that I want to retain the smooth movement you get with a 50p framerate (i.e no problems with judder when panning which you can suffer from with 25p) but also it's a viewable format with blu-ray, which 10809/50 currently isn't. I appreciate 720p will look softer than full HD but prepared to accept that, up to a point. It depends on just how much softer it will look. I would imagine it will still look considerably sharper than good Standard Definition on a big screen.

Claire
Offline
Joined: Apr 28 2001

A quick reply as I am rushing out... I had some TM900 1080/50P clips in an Edius 6.02 project (same format) and tried changing project settings to 720/50P. I was monitoring with 32" LED FULL HD TV via Storm 3G. It was too soft for me...

As an experiment I exported one of the clips in HQ avi format and downscaled it to 720P in VirtualDub using it's Lanczos resize filter. Putting this in a proper Edius 1280 x 720P project made it much better.

I was wondering if something like TMPGenc could downscale the raw camera clips to 720/50P in one go, so faster workflow?

Claire

lowlight
Offline
Joined: Dec 6 2010
Claire wrote:
A quick reply as I am rushing out... I had some TM900 1080/50P clips in an Edius 6.02 project (same format) and tried changing project settings to 720/50P. I was monitoring with 32" LED FULL HD TV via Storm 3G. It was too soft for me...

As an experiment I exported one of the clips in HQ avi format and downscaled it to 720P in VirtualDub using it's Lanczos resize filter. Putting this in a proper Edius 1280 x 720P project made it much better.

I was wondering if something like TMPGenc could downscale the raw camera clips to 720/50P in one go, so faster workflow?

That’s interesting and useful info, thanks. I am not experienced enough with HD editing to know whether re-sizing original 1080/50p clips to 720p first, and then inserting into a 720p project setting is a better way to go, but by the sound of it you’ve found an improvement in image quality by not using Edius’s own downscaling. I’m not familiar with TMPGenc but looking at their website the latest encoding offering is pretty comprehensive. Also wondering if Handbrake’s free conversion tool would do a good enough job.

dude
Offline
Joined: Nov 2 2010
lowlight wrote:
I would actually need to downscale the video in post to 720/50p for blu-ray compatibility.

Even 1080p/50 playback is not in BD specs, there are some players who can playback 1080p/60!, so maybe you'll think to change the player.
Models are Panasonic DMP-BD80, Pioneer BDP-51FD / Elite BDP-05FD, OPPO BDP-83 / OPPO BDP-93.
You can make a trial disk and check it out, or find some demos.

lowlight
Offline
Joined: Dec 6 2010
dude wrote:
Even 1080p/50 playback is not in BD specs, there are some players who can playback 1080p/60!, so maybe you'll think to change the player.
Models are Panasonic DMP-BD80, Pioneer BDP-51FD / Elite BDP-05FD, OPPO BDP-83 / OPPO BDP-93.
You can make a trial disk and check it out, or find some demos.

Thaks dude. Yes, I had heard some players (including PS3) can play 1080/50p, but want to ensure there will be no playback problems for anyone who wants to view my blu-ray disc if they don't have the models you mention.

dude
Offline
Joined: Nov 2 2010

Why don't you simply buy a camera that can shoot in 720p/50? Wouldn't be easier? Just wonder ...

lowlight
Offline
Joined: Dec 6 2010
dude wrote:
Why don't you simply buy a camera that can shoot in 720p/50? Wouldn't be easier? Just wonder ...

Yes, I agree it would be easier. As far as I know there aren't any cameras/camcorders which shoot genuine 720/50p and cost under £800. I would rather use a camcorder than a DSLR/micro4/3 or compact camera as there are fewer problems shooting video with a camcorder.

colin rowe
colin rowe's picture
Offline
Joined: Dec 16 2000
lowlight wrote:
Is it possible to get good full HD video out of such a tiny 4.5mm sensor? For the money it sounds good value. I would actually need to downscale the video in post to 720/50p for blu-ray compatibility. Wondering if anyone has views on this.

Here is some footage, taken with a Sony HX5 last year. This cam can be picked up for about £175, it shoots 1080 or 720 http://www.vimeo.com/11091348 The latest Sony line up, due out any day are 16mp

Colin Rowe

dude
Offline
Joined: Nov 2 2010
lowlight wrote:
As far as I know there aren't any cameras/camcorders which shoot genuine 720/50p and cost under £800.

Actually, there's a lot. Just go check it out on cnet.com, dpreview.com, etc. If you're still having trouble finding them, come back and we'll point some for you.

lowlight
Offline
Joined: Dec 6 2010
dude wrote:
Actually, there's a lot. Just go check it out on cnet.com, dpreview.com, etc. If you're still having trouble finding them, come back and we'll point some for you.

Thanks, I will have another look.