Tuning In To Hotel Mic With My Sennheiser G2

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Holy Harry
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I get the feeling there's a simple solution to this problem and I'm missing it - sorry if it's a daft question.

I use a Sennheiser G2 wireless setup during wedding ceremonies, and usualy ask the groom to keep his active for the speeches too. This works fine for the groom and anyone standing within two feet of him, but I'm relying on my Sennheiser K66 on cam mic to get audio for others further down the table. This audio, as you can guess, while audible, mostly picks up the p.a. and is full of boom - and sounds terrible compared to the G2 lav mic.

I've tried placing a Zoom H4 on the table, and that's an improvement, but still not there.

Here's my problem - I've tried to tune into the hotel's mic transmitter, from memory a Sennheiser evolution G2 500 Series, but for some reason, even though my receiver is showing the same frequency, I just get dead air.. even when the hotel is using a sennheiser too. I've never really changed any settings on my receiver since i bought it 12 months ago, so I'm not really all that familiar with the process. What am I doing wrong here, any one using the G2, maybe if you could post a step-by-step procedure I could follow?

Or is there another solution entirely?

Thank you for your time, really appreciate it!:)

mooblie
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Hmm. This has always worked for me (tuning my G2 receiver into a venue's Sennheiser radio hand held mic) - with excellent results.

I hope John visits soon - in case this happens to me: I would like to know what the possibilities are here too!

Martin - DVdoctor in moderation. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Anonymous

I’ve also tuned my receiver into a venue mic with no problem – but usually just move a mic along the table at the changeover between each speaker (using an excellent little plastic mic stand – about £6 from Maplin)

When that has been a potentially difficult procedure (limited access to the top table, or whatever) then I just strap my mic to the venue mic with an elastic band – never had anyone object.

John Willett
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I would guess that you are using a G2 and the venue is using a G1.

Your receiver will not work unless you switch off the pilot squelch on your receiver.

Your receiver is looking for the pilot tone and won't receive until it hears it.

If the venue is using G2, it may be that they have the pilot switched off on their system, which would give the same result.

I hope this helps.

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

mooblie
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Thanks, John (:)) - is that a difference between the G1/G2 - no pilot squelch on G1?

Could that also be the reason for not picking up a venue's (non-Sennheiser) UHF system - no pilot squelch being transmitted, and hence no pickup on the G2 receiver until it's turned off, to not expect pilot squelch tone?

Martin - DVdoctor in moderation. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Holy Harry
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That's excellent information, thanks John (and mooblie;) )

So - It seems the best mode of practice in, let's call it an un-tested environment, would be to try with pilot tone on first, if nothing happens, then turn off pilot tone. Simple. I'll try it at my next wedding on Saturday.

:D

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001

I have weddings this weekend and would like to try and tune my SENNHEISER EW-100ENG into the hotels mic.

Looking for a bit of advice please.

1/Should the pilot be on or off?
2/How do you know what channel the hotels on?
3/Is it still possible to tune into their system even if they don't have Sennheiser?
4/How many of you would actually wire the groom.

In general, have you found what settings work best overall.

Sorry for the list of Q's but I've just got the radio mic and want to use it asap at the weddings. (you know whats its like:))

Thanks in advance.

Tony

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Z Cheema
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Joined: Nov 17 2003

1/ if the EW-100ENG is a G1 series RX then there is no Pilot tone setting

2/ Look on the mic, unscrew the battery casing it might be in there or look at the RX and see if it displayed there.

3/ as long as it has the same frequencies as your RX, watch out for the old VHF radio mics, you cannot tune into them.

4/ I always wire the groom.

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001

Thanks Z Cheema, thats a great help.

Tony

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MAGLINK
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As John says the pilot needs to be switched off on the receiver,I recently bought a couple of the freeport vocal mic kits for £99 and can now use the transmitter with the g2 receiver as a cheap uhf wireless interview mic.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Sennheiser-Freeport-FP35-Vocal-Set-NEW_W0QQitemZ310069526358QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item310069526358&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318

The freeport doesnt have the pilot set-up so all I have to do is turn the pilot off on the g2 receiver.

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001

Thanks Gary, Another Q if I may, Which lapel is best to attach the mic on the groom, His L or R.

I have the EW-100ENG G2 series BTW.

Tony

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Tony7
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Think I just found the answer here.
http://forums.dvdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=42654&highlight=lapel

I want to set the levels on the transmitter and the receiver, Whats the best settings?

Tony.

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mooblie
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Tony7 wrote:
2/How do you know what channel the hotels on?

If you can't find it written anywhere on the hotel's system, investigate the SCAN function in the Sennheiser receiver - it will tell you (within a band of frequencies) which channels are in use.

(Turn all your own transmitters off first!)

Tony7 wrote:
I want to set the levels on the transmitter and the receiver, Whats the best settings?

I use SENSITIVITY = "00 dB" = the most sensitive setting on the transmitter with my Sennheiser MKE-2-Gold lapel mic. Never had a groom overload it (and certainly not a bride!) Their volume is hardly like stage actors (or even singers) with whom the system can also cope!

The AF OUT output level of the receiver depends on what you're feeding it into.

Martin - DVdoctor in moderation. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Tony7
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Hi Martin thanks for the advice too, appreciate it.

A MKE-2-Gold lapel mic would be a good investment sometime (not for a while though)

Tony

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DAVE M
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Tony7 wrote:
Thanks Gary, Another Q if I may, Which lapel is best to attach the mic on the groom, His L or R.

I have the EW-100ENG G2 series BTW.

Tony

I'd suggest his left - he'll have a "pen pocket" for the TX - or use his belt. The mic would then be in the middle of the triangle of vicar B&G. Using the other side will maybe result in a weaker sounding bride.

Z Cheema
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Tony7 wrote:
Thanks Gary, Another Q if I may, Which lapel is best to attach the mic on the groom, His L or R.

I have the EW-100ENG G2 series BTW.

Tony

I always place on the left and slightly down the so not to near his mouth, this is to even the sound from the Vicar and the bride who is on his left so hopefully even sound.

Watch out for the flower or the groom blowing breaths downwards due to being nervous

mooblie
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Z Cheema wrote:
Watch out for the flower or the groom blowing breaths downwards due to being nervous

...or constantly sniffing... :(

Martin - DVdoctor in moderation. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Tony7
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Thanks Guys.

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Tony7
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Tried to tune into hotel mic without success, I think their system was VHF, (mine is the EW-100ENG G2 series) I unscrewed the battery compartment and found these frequency numbers 175.800mhz.

When trying to pickup hotel mic should I use scan or tune?

Tony

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Z Cheema
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That's VHF, ours start at about 800.000Mhz

Tony7
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Why cant the senn have a switch to enable the pick up vhf (is this a silly question)

Tony.

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DAVE M
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Joined: May 17 1999

er...
it is (sort of ) a silly question.

It's a bit like saying why can't your Radio pick up TV.

The senn does what it's designed for - picking up UHF signals between a certain frequency.

I'm not aware of anything that would pick up both - other than maybe some sort of scanner

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001

Fair enough Dave (I thought it might be)

A home radio can pic up FM, LW and MW, but I understand you point about the TV.
(The TV can pick up some radio channels (sky/freeview :) )

Thanks.

Tony

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Z Cheema
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The TV does not pick up the radio channels, they are picked up at the Sky end and send as radio only to the transponders in the satellites which are using the frequencies range tv uses (just no vision).

VHF would be possible on them but an additional tuner section would be required for the lower frequencies of the VHF radios

Tony7
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Thanks Z Cheema, I knew I shouldn't have ask that stupid question :)
Still, I'd reather have the senn radio mic than not.

Tony

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Z Cheema
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If you don't ask you don't learn

paulears
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You also find some people using radio systems imported from Germany - illegally operating on D band, we use band E. For info, UHF systems were far too expensive for general use until 4 or 5 years ago, and everyone used VHF, but the number of free to use channels are limited, and extra ones need special licences to do it legally.

I've been hiring out radio systems for a long time now, and the problem with Sennheiser G1 and G2s and the pilot tone function is well known, but if you turn it off, all is well. Mixing freeport systems however isn't quite so foolproof. It isn't just a case of setting a frequency. There are other features that make mixing and matching difficult. You can use a Trantec receiver from the 4000 range to receive Sennheiser G1 and G2 transmitters, but the sound is a little different. All radio systems use compression on the transmitters and expansion on the receivers to give better signal to noise ratio, and this companding system is different for each manufacturer. A Trantec transmitter and Sennheiser receiver sounds very thin and weedy, and Shure systems never seem to mix and match well at all. In general, you can normally get sound - getting quality sound is much more difficult.

John Willett
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You should never mix and match.

Each manufacturers noise reduction system is different.

Also a G2 *is* compatible with G1 but *not* with FreePORT or 1000, 3000 or 5000 series.
G1 / G2 use HDX, 1000 / 3000 / 5000 us eHiDynPLUS.

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

Tony7
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Picking up the sound from the speakers at the top table isn't really that big a problem, my trouble sometimes is, you hear the sound coming from the hotels sound system and the person speaking at the same time.
Now, that I'm sure would be ok if the hotel sound system was good, but quite a few of the hotels sound systems are far from good.

Is there a way round this especially if its impossible to tune into their s system with my EW-100ENG G2
(hope I've explained myself properly)

Tony.

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MAGLINK
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John Willett wrote:
You should never mix and match.

Each manufacturers noise reduction system is different.

Also a G2 *is* compatible with G1 but *not* with FreePORT or 1000, 3000 or 5000 series.
G1 / G2 use HDX, 1000 / 3000 / 5000 us eHiDynPLUS.

John whilst I respect your input as an expert in these things, I have been using a freeport hand held stick mic with a G2 112 receiver for over a month now with no problems at all. I just need to turn the pilot off on the G2 receiver and it has worked fine for loads of shooting we have done. A bargain at £99 for the hand held and I have two of them now. Ok I am not doing broadcast in IPTV but for general use it seems to be fine and I have also used one freeport with receiver several times for PA with the G2 112 as well on the camera tuned in to pick up speeches on corporates etc.

paulears
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If the sound system is good, and it has a spare output, then one of the plug-in Sennheiser transmitters will be fine. The trouble is you have no control and are at the mercy of an events manager (who could be great, or...... not!)

JOHN . A.V.
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There are last resort methods not discussed yet :- With a minidisk or Audio recording device such as the H4 use an output from the hotels PA ( I have done this ) or hook up a mic near to one of the speakers if there is access. I use the H4 because I can get the asides and comments too as well as the main speaker. So the dad speaking about his daughter will sometimes get a little sob or sniffle for example. These moments are golden.

John Willett
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JGNattrass wrote:
John whilst I respect your input as an expert in these things, I have been using a freeport hand held stick mic with a G2 112 receiver for over a month now with no problems at all.

This is not true I'm afraid.

You *do* have problems as the companding on the G2 receiver is different to that of the FreePORT transmitter.

The fact that these differences are not a problem for you and that you are happy with the results does not alter the fact that there is still a problem.

You may mix cross-ply and radial tyres on a car - you may not notice a problem, but there is certainly a problem there and you would never advise someone to do it.

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.