Urgent advice needed

Whatever you do, it won't be the ideal, as you're dependant on the room sound.

I guess that you'd be best to have a pair of mics on a tall stand in about the centre of the hall. A pair of cardiods would be ok.

In an ideal world, you could fly the mics overhead using wires or cord. If you do that, then tape the mic lead to the bar that you use to make the pair. Using three cords to fly means that you can position the pair.

Run the mics as a stereo pair to your camera. (or use a recorder such as a zoom/MD etc)

Ok thanks so far

The XM2 will be ceiling mounting on a beam and the mic(s) about 6ft forward on the next beam towards the stage. You recommend two cardoid mics

Are these stereo or mono mics? Connected via the MA300 XLR? Any suggestions on make/products?

Sorry if this all sounds a bit basic but I am new to this and would like to get it correctly set up. :)

I realise your questions are audio related, but have you asked the client if he wants 4:3 or 16:9?

http://www.studiospares.com/Mics-Condenser/AKG-C1000-S-Mic-Cardioid-Hypercardioid/invt/409921
or
http://www.studiospares.com/Mics-Instrument/Studiospares-S900-MinCondenser-Mic/invt/448630

I have a pair of the second ones - I also have a pair of the AKG 451 that they are a "copy" of.

I think they'd do you.

Both need phantom power -I assume that your camera can supply this?

You'd end up with a pair of mono mics thus giving a stereo image. If you're bolting to roof beams then some form of rubber mount might be worth considering. What I've used in the past is just some bungie cord or rubber bands to halp isolate the mics from a structure.

If you're not going to do a lot of this, consider hiring some kit. I'd guess that for less than £75, a local audio guy would rent you a stereo pair and leads for the weekend

How do you intend to set the levels if all the kit is flown? (but not you!)

Hi Bobbster,
Audio:
If you can arrange optional cables to 'sometimes used' mixing desk, that would increase your options - just change camera input cable accordingly.

As you say you a new to this - a few non audio items:
XM2 is light as cameras go, but heavy enough to do injury - make sure venue safety guy is happy and insurance in place.
I have the impression camera will be inaccessible during band play and mounted above audience. Maybe side mount will be better where ladder access during recording is possible to monitor, change camera angle and adjust sound levels, change tape etc.
Rigging up external monitor to check composition and focus is also reccomended, as is headphones, but these may be impossible to listen to with LOUD speakers competing, though you should be able to hear any crackle/overload.
Toms question re 16:9 may be crucial if distributing via DVD.
I assume you are aware of the many issues regarding release forms, consents and insurance.

Wow this is quick response wise, I think were getting close to what I require do the first mics listed have xlr connections?

I am not sure but think I can get phantom power via the XM2/MA300 if xlr is used

check phantom first as you're stuffed without it.

yes all the mics are XLR ballanced

Hi,

I have covered this event before, just never been totally happy with the output from the xm2 on camera mic, so I was thinking Rode Video mic or XLR connections and mics.

I have shot it using 16:9 before, but since then realised the xm2 should give a better picture quality on 4:3 is this correct.

I have photographic insurance for my photographic business so I can check the policy. The camera etc is double clamped to the roofing beam. Each act gets 45-60mins max, when they change I change over the tape etc. This way the zoom is fixed (manual) on the stage and no changes are made to camera settings during recording so composition is set at the start.

ok
the 300 doesn't give phantom powering so you'd need the first option that will run on an iternal battery.

I'd still consider renting if you can but it's dependant on price and how much you'll do in the future. A mic will last 20-30 years.

I'm still interested in how you'll run the camera - change tape etc if it's bolted to the roof.

I use hague pan and tilt heads and manfrottto magic arms to rig cameras, controling the zoom and focus using long lanc cables. I record the video on a DSR25 deck.

that was written while you did your bit.

take a look at Hague's website for ideas about camera control

I get out the largest step ladder we have and change the tape when the bands swap over, I haven't fell off yet :D

Clients typically expect 16:9 these days, just depends upon intended purpose/distribution whether 4:3 is still used.

Quality wise using the XM2, 16:9 mode means that black letterbox stripes are applied, throwing away much quality in the recordable area.
So, with XM2 4:3 gives optimal quality for it's own design, but that's not to say it's right for your clients distribution need. Many of us have changed / upgraded our cameras for this very reason.

Dave's right - you need to check with your clients because if you shoot in 4:3 most people will view on a 16:9 set these days and simply let their TV's expand the image to fill the wide-screen, so making people fat and wide.

This is an excellent response by everyone so far, obiously more research and infomation has been supplied and gained. A bit more information, this is for a charity gig where bands play live music for three days and the proceeds go to local children. http://www.helstonbury.com/ The DVD is for a few people and non profit making. It is likely the only video I do in a year!! this will change (hence all the basic questions) :) I like the look and the idea off plugging into the XLR inputs via the AKG C1000S mics but one review I have had says point these mics away from speakers to avoid feedback??:confused: Other suggestions I have had are AT 897 one XLR connection, is this normal to record just one XLR channel at a live gig?? And at the budget end I have had suggested a Rode video mic and a AT PRO 24. My head says I have to be realistic were not recording it for studio/shop sales but more a nice to have thing for the participents and those that want a DVD later. So the off camera mic is an improvement from in camera, Rode Video Mic or AT Pro 24, and the AKG C1000S (x2) or AT897 is another improvement on the rode/AT pro 24 and finally the best option although not available here is to plug into the sound desk. As a further note I may also use this set up outside as a addition to my photography where I do a lot of surfing/wildlife images. So while my head is saying budget I am looking ahead and thinking which will give me the best for the three situations, Videos at gigs, surfing photography at the beach and wild bird/wildlife photography :D

I do a lot of gigs. (multi camera)

So although I record the sound using the on camera mics, this is for syncing purposes and I take a desk feed to a recorder or sometimes the audio is recorded multitrack and mixed afterwards for adding in post.

I can't help but feel that you'd be better borrowing a small scaff tower to get you above the heads of the crowd (even rostra built up will do) and man the camera for a more interesting video. Ok - so you can use a secon/third camera and edit it all but at least a single camera with an op looks less like CCTV than one in a fixed position.

I like AT mics - I have a selection of gun mics from them.Including a pair of 897s. The advice given about feedback and the AKG is for a live PA use - not what they're designed for or what you'd use them for.

If you do maily wildlife then you could go the AT gun route - not ideal but leaving you in a better place for the future. You could make do with one as, to be honest, unless you do something about the camera position, it's a record of the event and not worth worrying about stereo.

That way, your mic budget doubles and you get a decent wildlife kit.

The gun mic will need to be further away from the stage for the same sound and don't forget you'll need a powered version

Ok Decided to go for 2 AKG C10000S mics one to each channel of the MA300. Couple of more questions. The speakers are about 8 ft apart will one short mic bar suffice pointing both mics to their relevant speaker or should I place them directly opposite each main speaker?

Do I need maile/female xlr leads to connect the ma300 to the mics?

Thanks Bob

8ft!? blimey - it;'s a small stage!

A bar would be fine . You're after an aproximation of the human head with an ear on either side. I was tempted to suggest wider spacing but if some of the stage sound doesn't go through the PA then you might find the drums a bit lacking.

I'd be tempted to get a cd copy off the desk as well. You might find you could add it to the tape in the edit. But if you're a single camera then maybe not.

Yes. M>F leads. they are reasonably cheap so get enough for comfort

Bobbster, I partly agree with DAVE M, but our preference has been to have a direct feed from the bands mixing desk on channel 1 & a good mic into channel 2. Using a Sennheiser K6/Me66 arrangement you can get excellent sound, balanced as to actual & ambient sound albeit the final product would only be mono but good quality. Using 2 mics will pick up any discrepency of the performers speakers & distortions whereas direct from the desk you get clean sound.
Picture wise we have used the XM2 in 16:6 format but using the Canon WD wide angle lens which works superbly & gives a better view overall. Agreed the XM2 is not native 16:9but it does a pretty good job & mostly the general public will not notice the difference.
One thing you need to be aware of is that "driving" the camera ie using the camera manually, you will get better results unless you can set it up to give good results & then have another camera roaming to get the different shots & sync up in post production editing.
Good luck & have fun

Hi Received the mics (AKG C1000S x2) leads etc today. Finished late tonight so did a quick test in front of the TV. Can't believe how quiet these are compared to the on camera mic. Still live stage test tomorrow so I think this is where the quality will shine through especially at the high noise levels.

Many Thanks for all the information supplied from everyone, recording was good with everyone commenting it is the best sound recorded from the event to date (XM2 now sold, looking for a Canon XH A1 now:D )

XM2 now sold but what about the report of the gig you recorded??

Hi,

Yes the gig went very well a charity event over 3 days. Bit exhausting doing the phots and video and consuming ale at the same time :D . All told we raised a total of about £4200 for local charities which is our best so far. There were some minor hiccups but these will all be ironed out for next year, ie me taping over one recorded tape!!!! Video was a bit noisy on some night shots, so probably best using spotlight/manual mode next time. Bit scarey at the end when of the night when the camera on the beam is close to all the rather worse for wear crowd but it came through unscathed again. Couldn't work out how to resize or re-configure for you tube so videos up there took 5/6 hours to upload a five minute video. The mics were set up one either side of the PA speakers about 6ft away as shown in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ-hw8sbRlQ and pictures of the event are here http://www.bobsharplesphotography.co.uk/Gallery2/index.php?cat=12 So many thanks for everyone's input and advice, hopefully shoot in high definition next year and now we are happy with the sound concentrate on getting spot on video.