My next camera (hopefully buying in the next couple of months) is likely to be either a Z7 or an EX1, but the decision is very hard!
I've done a load of research and both cameras have very attractive features and certain cons too. I am happy with HDV for my corporate vids, but it would be nice to use a more forgiving format for creative work. I like the idea of recording to CF for workflow easing and tape for archiving, but am also happy to back-up footage to a hard drive.
I know that whichever camera I choose, I will have to make some sort of compromise. So, has anyone used both these cameras in 'anger' and are you able to share the benefit of your comparable experiences?
I know this is open-ended and a wooly question, but practical views make a huge difference.
Thanks in advance,
Dominic
Well Dominic, if money's no object and you don't mind the weight, the bigger chipped EX1 has to be the better camera. You talk of it having 'compromises' but don't feature them in your post.
If you've got a Z1 (or similar) now, then the Z7 is but a small step for mankind, whereas the EX1 could stretch your creativity further by being a leap-frog move.
Tom
Yes, money is always an object (not bothered by the weight)! But, on paper the EX1 wins hands down and I'm certainly leaning towards it (at the moment, there is just under £200 between the two cameras at Creative Video). The cons for the EX1 are the lack of immediate archive (ie no tape), fixed lens and I've just discovered that I would also need to upgrade my Final Cut to version 6 (an extra £330).
Currently I use a Z1 as the main camera, so I'm all set up for HDV. Also, I have access to multiple lenses, which I would be able to use with a Z7.
My conundrum is hard, hence the request for real-life views. :confused:
Dominic
I'm amazed to hear the prices are so close, but then again CF is cheaper than SxS. What about backup? I always need two cameras, and you could find two EX1s + cards + Mac upgrade + archive gets a lot dearer than two Z7s.
But full HD and ½" chips - the only compromise I see is the fixed lens, so if you're pining to use super-telephotos the Z7 it has to be.
The EX1 is £3,995 ex VAT, including 2X 8GB cards and the Z7 is £3,799 ex VAT but without any cards. I rarely need more than a single camera, so I'm happy to hire something for those very occasional shoots.
I think I need to do some more hands-on research!
The EX1 is £3,995 ex VAT, including 2X 8GB cards and the Z7 is £3,799 ex VAT but without any cards. I rarely need more than a single camera, so I'm happy to hire something for those very occasional shoots.I think I need to do some more hands-on research!
...like looking in the Classified forum here!
I've been laying off SxS card footage shot at SQ 1440x1080 50i on my EX1 onto HDV stock onto my Z1 via firewire - a very cheap archive - OK, it's not BPAV original folders which I keep for certain projects, but hell, how many hard drives can one bloke buy?
I can tell you, after a 4 cam EX1 shoot for three days.... it's a load of GB's
I'd buy the EX3 as well.. you can hire lenses for 2/3 inch cams and use the 1/2 inch adapter and the EX1 has some vile ergonomics.
just my 10 cents
Paul
The EX3 would be ideal, but that really is a price hike (don't worry Moobile, no more price lists :D )!
A lot of these arguments have been covered in this thread.
"Pricing of the Sony Z7 and EX1" in the AV hardware section.
Just so you know, if you want to use the compact flash recorder alone on the Z7 for input into FCP you will have to upgrade to version 6. However the whole thing does work beautifully.
Thanks Medidox, I'll check it out (I did do a search before posting, honest Guv'nor)! I hadn't realised that CF reading needed the FCP upgrade too, so that factor is now a moot point! Still, the next job will pay for it.
Dominic
I got a quote from preston's today for a z7. Will be ordering it in the morning. Jigsaw24 are doing them for £4100 approx including vat. Cheapest I've seen anywhere. Tom hardwick started a post recently where we talked about the pros and cons of both models too.
M.
Thanks Michael, I have now read the thread and seen that mine was superfluous!
D
On the contrary Dominic I think this is a topic with a lot of interest and should be covered in the HDV section. After all it seems like a no brainer if you look at the output of the EX and compare it with the Z7. However it is the practicalities of the work-flow that make them much closer competitors.
not at all dominic, I didn't mean to imply that. I just could be bothered typing it again :)
I imagine most people thinking of upgrading are deciding between these two models.
So, has anyone used both these cameras in 'anger' and are you able to share the benefit of your comparable experiences? ... practical views make a huge difference.
I've used both. A friend/colleague and I both wanted to up grade from Z1s. He raved about the EX1. I, with a heavy heart, thought that the Z7 was a more sensible upgrade - it did Solid State recording, but onto cheap CF cards. It was SD capable. It had a better screen than the Z1, a better lens than the Z1, yet handled like a Z1. He raved about the EX1 quality and the workflow and the rest.
Cut to the chase:
- He bought a Z7 simply because he was so enamoured with the Z1 and could not do without its sheer Z1-ness (SD DVCAM, compact size and ergonomics)
- I bought an EX1 because I was so finished with the Z1 and wanted something that delivered a quality jump that my clients could see. I wanted to upgrade from the Z1, not simply get 'a better Z1'.
And I must say SxS feels better than CF to me, if you'll excuse the considerable expense. the 720p format is a brilliant thing - speed of SD, quality of HD. 720p50 gets you SD interlaced look. The half inch chips and lens are visibly streets ahead of the Z7 - even a myopic and cynical client will see the difference. Even my accountant wife spots the difference.
I am getting bookings now as an EX1 shooter. Jobs I would not have been called for are now cropping up. Word's got around about chromakey, slomo, timelapse, DigiBeta look, film look, HD for plasma screens - it's all good.
Z7's a great upgrade to the Z1 - nothing wrong with that. EX1 is about shrinking an F-350 into a Z1 sized package, without being a Z1. There are compromises to be made, and some stupid stuff to put up with, but the difference in quality offsets all of that.
I think your decision should pivot around what your clients see, and what you see through your clients' eyes. Do they see the difference between Z1 and DSR-570? Go EX1. Do they see the difference between what they can do and what you do? Go with the Z1.
A very good post Matt - and I feel you've nailed all the salient points; couldn't have put it better myself. Only one thing I'd add and that is that my clients (predomenantly wedding couples) don't pay enough for me to bin the two Z1s and go get 2 EX1s, however much I'd love to tread that pathway.
The c.£1k I charge for a wedding film gets them an SD DVD that (I reckon) squeezes the very last drop of quality out of the Z1, and if they upscale this into a modern 46" LCD they should be very happy. They've bought me, my A/V and inter-personal skills more than my kit.
I've used an EX1 for a wedding and like Matt says, off the SD DVD all can see the disdainful ease with which the EX1 footage blows away the Z1 footage. But that's the ruthlessness of the A/B test at work - if your whole film is shot Z1 then it can be more than adequate, it can be nearly outstanding. (Fully outstanding being left to the EX1).
tom.