8mm cine film to video transfer

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stuart621
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Joined: Oct 24 2001

What is the best way of going about transferring old 8mm cine film to MiniDV? I have a feeling that the shutter speed difference could be a problem and I don't know what other pitfalls there will be with shooting a projected image.

Has anyone had any experience of this or is it better to avoid a lot of hassle and get it done professionally?

harlequin
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I know that Tom Hardwick does transfers ..... and there are others
There are already a few threads about this , but i know search can be a little stubborn at giving answers although i got a few with just 'cine' and 'dv' as search terms

Gary MacKenzie

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stuart621
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harlequin wrote:
I know that Tom Hardwick does transfers ..... and there are others
There are already a few threads about this , but i know search can be a little stubborn at giving answers although i got a few with just 'cine' and 'dv' as search terms

Ah, yes. Good idea. Thanks! I did "8mm" and "transfer" and didn't get too much back. I'll try again with those words and maybe drop Tom a PM.

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Yes, do drop me a line. I have a Tom's Top Ten Transfer Tips and Tricks (all the tees) that I can send you.

Fergie
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Joined: Jan 9 2001

Can you send me one too Tom.:)

Cheers.

               
                  Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson

I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects

ClaireTall
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I can't get over the huge number of companies doing it now.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=cine+transfer&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr%3DcountryUK%7CcountryGB

When I first started in 1988 there were about three.

How's yours going Tom, ours has slowed down a bit.

Fergie, if you're doing it yourself try getting hold of a Sankyo or Elmo projector.

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tom hardwick
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I've got a huge box of film over there waiting for me to find some precious time, Claire. Sankyos and Elmos are fine if they come with electronic fine speed control. Many of the models in the range didn't. What you really want is a superb projection lens, and these are much harder to find.

tom.

Fergie
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Joined: Jan 9 2001

Tom :- Thanks for the e-mail.

Clair :- Much as I would like a fancy projector, I am only now doing things like cine to video transfer for family and friends and as all such jobs are expected to be done at no expence to anyone (except me) I can't justify buying a better projector.
Much as I'd like to because I still like to do 'freebies' as best I can.

Cheers.

               
                  Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson

I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects

Unicorn
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Do any of those boxes where you stick the projector in one end and and the camera in the other actually work at all effectively? I've been thinking about transferring our old holiday films from super-8 to HDV (and then DVD), but projecting them onto the wall and filming it would seem a bit low-tech for that resolution :).

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tom hardwick
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A typical Kodachrome 40 movie frame (5.7 mm x 4.1 mm) holds a wealth of information as each of my 14" wide Cibachromes attest, so scanning each frame - as proper flying spot telecine equipment does it - is the way to go.

I have one of those back projected / surface silvered mirror / transcluscent screen thingies up there on the shelf. It may look a lot more hi-tek that project and re-film, but the results are generally cr*p.

tom.

Unicorn
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Yeah, a proper HD telecine would be best, but probably more than I can justify paying :).

P4-3.06/2GB RAM/2500GB IDE/SATA. Avid Media Composer, Liquid Edition, Premiere 6, Lightwave, Vue 6, eyeon Fusion 5. DV and HDV editing/compositing.

DAVE M
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Joined: May 17 1999

I use a Glasscreen that's a case containing a front silvered mirror and a wax based screen.
Many cheap "box" type systems give horrible hot spots.

"Walls" can be very good but I prefer projecting through the screen - you can get right on axis

Alan Craven
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Joined: Jan 26 2001

A friend managed to "borrow" a pukka tele-cine machine at his local university during the summer vac - could be worth a try?

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Sure could - especially if you have 24fps footage and only a three bladed shutter in your projector. Before you use the telecine - see how they get the audio off stripe.

DVdoctor
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Joined: Apr 1 1999

If I recall 8mm film never ran at 24fps, there are a few solutions here in NTSC land the use the concept of capturing image frame by frame into an NLE and then generating the video tape. The results are excellent, but the kit is expensive

http://www.moviestuff.tv/8mm_telecine.html

Sharyn

Nigel Longman
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Joined: Apr 28 1999
Nice kit
dvdoctoress wrote:
If I recall 8mm film never ran at 24fps....

Sharyn

I made a few super8 films at 24fps. The benefits were smoother motion, improved audio bandwidth and reduced wow and flutter on mag stripe recordings. The downside was higher stock costs.

I've seen those transfer machines before. They seem to be capable of excellent quality and use interesting and novel techniques to achieve the transfer but, as you say, at a cost. I particularly like the idea of using an aerial image of the film in the gate rather than a projected one and using a closed loop (other than manual intervention!) to sync the projection device with the capture device.

I've got some big old lenses somewhere in the loft .....

Regards NL

ClaireTall
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Joined: Jan 28 2004

What you really need is one of these

http://www.bbcresources.co.uk/postproduction/london/telecine.html

You'll have to sell the house of course.

Studio with green screen for hire near Gatwick Airport.
Kit hire facilities on site.
excelsiorstudios.co.uk

tom hardwick
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I don't recall any Super-8 camera not having a 24 fps setting Sharyn. Filming at that speed sure gave smoother pans and noticeably better audio as Nigel says, but the increased camera noise, the 2 mins 30 seconds between reloads and the less slow slo-mo made many shy away.

The 48 Hz flicker rate of a 2 bladed projector was more noticeable than the 54 Hz of a 3 bladed machine running at 18 fps, but few 2 bladed machines were produced. Still, I find I can transfer 24 fps footage to the timeline at 16.77 fps and use the Canopus Speed Control to bring it back up to 24 fps beautifully.

tom.

DVdoctor
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Sorry I probably was not clear, here in the US we considered 8mm and super8 totally different, so i was refering to 8mm cameras and AFAIK there were no 24fps versions. Super 8 did have 24fps.

Sharyn

Rob James
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Joined: Jun 26 2001

Depending on the quantity of material you might consider using a bureaux service such as:

http://www.stanleysonline.co.uk/scategory-18.htm

For smaller quantities this will be much cheaper than rolling you own.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

infocus
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dvdoctoress wrote:
........i was refering to 8mm cameras and AFAIK there were no 24fps versions. Super 8 did have 24fps.

Not true - many years ago I had a Bolex which had the choice of many speeds from 8fps (I think) up to 64fps, and 24fps was one option. In practice I doubt much Standard 8mm ever got shot at 24fps, if only because sound was rarer then than later in Super8 times. (And most Std8 cameras were clockwork!) Where 24fps Standard 8mm was seen (whilst not very common) was in prints from cinema films.

Rob James
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infocus wrote:
Not true - many years ago I had a Bolex which had the choice of many speeds from 8fps (I think) up to 64fps, and 24fps was one option.

Me too! In fact I think I still have it somewhere.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

ClaireTall
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Rob James wrote:
Depending on the quantity of material you might consider using a bureaux service such as:

http://www.stanleysonline.co.uk/scategory-18.htm

For smaller quantities this will be much cheaper than rolling you own.

Stanleys are about £200 for a 400ft reel and having seen the results I'm not impressed.

Always ask for a demo reel when choosing a compnany to transfer your films and watch out for those who put their logo in one corner and charge you £100 to remove it.

Blatant plug http://www.videostudio.co.uk/efvcine.htm

Studio with green screen for hire near Gatwick Airport.
Kit hire facilities on site.
excelsiorstudios.co.uk

DVdoctor
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Interesting on the Bolex, good to know, I had never ran into that, most of the stuff I have seen was home movie type stuff, until it got to super8 or 16mm

Here is an interesting link with some ideas on frame by frame capture

http://homepage.mac.com/onsuper8/diytelecine/index.html

Sharyn

Bruce
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Joined: Apr 20 2001

I used to shoot with a Bolex P8 at 24fps. The reason was to get good sound quality on stripe sound. Back in the old days TV news had Eumig 8mm projectors pointing at a camera of some sort.

Rob James
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Joined: Jun 26 2001

Now you come to mention it at BBC TVC in London I do remember something of the sort with virtual image projected on half-silvered mirrors. There was also at least one telecine with Standard and Super 8 gates.

I think the reason 18fps was the amateur default sound speed was simply cost.
I might see if I can dig out at least one of my old Bolexes and have a look. I used to have an H8 and an H16 and a zoom equipped one which I think was a K1. Now I'm down to just a couple of compacts and in all honesty no film has gone through them in nearly 20 years. Shame really.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

LesWinn
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Joined: Sep 3 2002

I had my first Std.8 Bolex in 1959. It was twin turret and the standard was 16fps. This altered later. to 18fps. I think that was about the time a lightmeter was fitted.
I parted with my D8LA about a year ago with all accessories.

Les

Rob James
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My dad bought the first one we had in around 1963. I think it was a B8SL, a twin turret with the meter, still have this one, but it is at my mum's. I dug out the other compact for the sake of interest. Picked this one up at a car boot a few years ago. Also a twin turret this one is more sophisticated with variable shutter and viewfinder and also has the selenium light meter, but no model identifiying plate. It has one Yvar and one Switar (The 'Rolls-Royce' of lenses at the time). Default frame rate is 16 but later ones were 18. It also has markings for 12, 24, 48 and 64 fps.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

Rob James
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As an afterthought, playing with this magnificent piece of machinery reminds me of what we have lost. OK the results left a lot to be desired when compared with what we have now, but the tactile satisfaction of using it and the silky smooth action of the lenses and camera mechanism are a world away from what we have today.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

LesWinn
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Ron
I think you will find that your B8SL is 1961. There were two later models having three lense turrets before the fixed zoom model appeared.
I used a fixed focus 5.5mm Pizar for wide angle, a 12.5mm Switar and a 36mm Yvar. For wide angle two "converter lenses" were supplied for fitting over the lightmeter/viewerfinder.

Les