I'm on the edge of a choice my first semi-pro camcorder for my freelance work around London town. I collected £2500 which enables me to buy new cam but I still cannot make my mind! What I want to do is some documentaries, corporate and private events and hopefully some shorts for upcoming directors.
The choice is:
-Sony HVR-Z1
-Sony HVR-V1
-Canon XH A1
I've read lots of reviews and it seems to be official that V1 has most of the features of Z1 plus such a important progressive scan which is used for those who shoot shorts.
Than why Z1 which is older and more expensive is still more popular? Can anybody who used both of them could PLEASE help me to choose?
Does 3CMOS sensors in V1 cope as good as 3CCD in Z1 in the low light conditions?
Personally I'm more keen to Z1 but I really want to get best for my hard earned money.
Which one???
Thanks
Does 3CMOS sensors in V1 cope as good as 3CCD in Z1 in the low light conditions?
Nope. I tried them literally side-by-side indoors, and I can say this with some conviction.
Might not be as good in low light, but I think that the V1 produces a much nicer overall picture IMHO.
Might not be as good in low light, but I think that the V1 produces a much nicer overall picture IMHO.
Simon.
I read lots of your postings and really respect your opinion. Do you really think that V1 is a better choice over the Z1?
Thanks
I had the same dilema a few months ago and ended up with the V1 for the following reasons:
It has a better lens
The battery life is better with cmos chips
It is slightly smaller than the Z1 and feels better balanced to me
It comes with a mic so you are up and running straight away
It was cheaper than the Z1
The audio controls are in a better place
It has the 24p setting
I got it from Jigsaw 24 and they recommended it over the Z1
I dont like buying last years model and the Z1 is soon to be replaced by the Z7
OK the Z1 may be better in low light but I have a small £60 dual sony camera light that I have on if shooting in low light conditions, I dont do night shoot doco's so dont need mega low light appertures.
I am very happy with the camera and glad I chose it over the Z1 as it suits my needs fine.
Of the 3, the Canon is the best in my opinion. Download the BBC settings docs for them all and you'll see why.
I looked at the Canon - it was nicer - but still went with the flow and bought a Z1.
I have a lot of Sony kit - loads of batteries, I need DVCAM sometimes and although I haven't used NTSC mode yet it's there as an option.
Of the 3, the Canon is the best in my opinion. Download the BBC settings docs for them all and you'll see why.
What about if you were to throw the HVX200 into the mix? I've been editing some Z1-shot HDV footage recently and the MPEG artefacts are pretty nasty at times, and it's DVCam appearance is also beset with very visible downconversion artefacts. The idea of a none long-GOP, less compressed format appeals quite a bit at the moment.
Steven
Hi All
I'd choose th Z1 every time simply for it's form factor... image wise they are pretty close.. but I'd prefer a 1/3 chip... the V1 just has too many menus, the LCD has gone back the wrong place..etc, etc...access to all the functions is in definite regression.... THE only interesting point of the V1 is 25P... Magic bullet gives this to me with my Z1..and in SD the CF25 is pretty darn good..
Now however the goal posts have moved and NOW I'd not buy either... In the HDV market the new Z7 looks way better... or for similar money if you can hack the work flow you can get an Xdcam EX....
For my part I'll probably get an S270 for the simple reason I hate handycams and have been dreaming of an affordable shouldermount HDV cam for ages....
Regards
Gareth
I read lots of your postings and really respect your opinion. Do you really think that V1 is a better choice over the Z1?
Overall, yes.
Magic bullet gives this to me with my Z1
At the expense of long rendering times. the Z1 is about to be replaced anyway, so it is a moot point. At present I would wait and see what the Z7 is like.
I feel now that the days of crappy autofocus lenses are over, and most of the manufacturers will be clamoring to put full manual/auto switchable affairs on them like the EX1.
Steven, I wouldn't throw the HVX200 into this mix, it's a different breed. I like the HVX200 a lot, it has a lot going for it (e.g. not HDV) but there are things about the camera front end that I don't like. The HPX500 fixes all of that though, but you're then into 2"/3 lenses, so it's a different league again.
There will soon be BBC settings docs in the usual places for the HPX3000, HPX500, and GV Infinity (sent the doc files off yesterday), although there are still some odd question marks over the Infinity which need to be resolved by Thomson, and then a retest when they're fixed (I hope).
[QUOTE=SimonMW;301402 At the expense of long rendering times. the Z1 is about to be replaced anyway, so it is a moot point. At present I would wait and see what the Z7 is like.
Hi
This was precisely why I said I'd choose an EX, Z7 or S270 over either of the cameras available now or soon....
I have had a Z1 and FX 1 since virtually the outset and nothing other than the 25P would have made me look twice at the V1.
Now we have the EX, Z7 & S270 all coming out within months of each other... My perfect camera would be an HDV with solid state recording in a shoulder mount format with interchangeable lenses... I guess someone at Sony was listening.. Which should I choose, at the price, to replace my Z1.???
Cheers
Gareth
it has a lot going for it (e.g. not HDV)
Yah, not being HDV is one thing. Having soft pictures lacking in detail is quite another! But hey, not having HDV compression sorts all that out... ;)
This was precisely why I said I'd choose an EX, Z7 or S270 over either of the cameras available now or soon....
Okay, now from my own point of view, even though I get to try out a load of cameras, I haven't moved over to HD myself from my company finances. That might tell you something.
I just can't justify it at the moment. But mileage may vary. HD for all I care might be a crock of s..t. All in hype rather than reality. Corporate clients wouldn't know HD from H20 in most cases. They sure as hell don't have the delivery mech in place. Archive for the future? Hmm, probably they'd want something fresh.
Drive your equipment into the ground unless you have a real and solid upcoming market need.
At the end of the day buy your equipment based on company and client requirements. Not the latest Sony or Panasonic brochure.
A good debate. Lots of Z1 owners graduated from the PD150/170 so the batteries and accessories 'carried them over'. The Z1 was a huge step up in the ergonomics stakes too - with the iris control wheel, the assign buttons, the focus assist and the superb top screen all being wonderful plus points.
Then along came the V1, and I was slapping my forehead that it had reverted to the side-screen position of the PD 170. Why, Sony? You've shown the world where the screen should be yet you step backwards? The 20x zoom looks lovely until you realise it has less wide-angle than the Z1 and feeds far smaller 1"/4 chips. I can confirm that in side-by-side tests it's not as good in the gloom.
And a slight correction JG Nattrass. When a camera that has a 20x zoom costs less than a camera with a 12x zoom, it won't 'have a better lens' as you put it. It's one of the laws of nature.
The Canon is very interesting. Proper 1"/3 chips and a 20x zoom that (although slower than the V1's) starts out at a decent wide-angle and doesn't need the huge and feeble Sony 0.8x bolted on the front from day one. Only user snag is the titchy side-screen on the Canon, and the fact that you can't assign OIS on/off to a camera button - you have to dig around in the menu for it.
The Z1 is getting on a bit, but then so too is the PD170 and you see that being used on the TV news every single night. CMOS chips seem to be the answer to a maiden's prayer, but with Li-ion batteries who cares that they use less power? And whoever gets CCD smear with a Z1 must be constantly shooting at 1/350 th sec and up and right into the headlights. Pretty unusual I'd say.
The Z1 is tough as nails. The cheaper, lighter, newer V1 must make compromises to come in under the Z1's price. And Canon want you both to look their way; their reputation means have no need to engrave Zeiss around the lens barrel.
Wyspa - you could toss a three-sided coin over this. All the cameras will give you quite outstanding results, all the cameras are better than we are in a sense - their potential is rarely, if ever, fully exploited.
So choose blindfolded and use the camera every single day. Get to know it inside-out and back to front. That way if you pick the worst of the three you'll end up making better films than the next man holding the best.
tom.
I'm on the edge of a choice my first semi-pro camcorder for my freelance work around London town. I collected £2500 which enables me to buy new cam but I still cannot make my mind! What I want to do is some documentaries, corporate and private events and hopefully some shorts for upcoming directors.
Going back a few steps, I think you need to think about what kit you need as a whole - buy that, and then maybe think about the camera last when you know how much money you have left. It's no good buying just the camera you want only to find you have no lighting, no tripod, no editing......... and no money left to buy it!
Also think of the system as a whole - whilst the HVX200 may have a nice codec, it comes at the price of a far higher bitrate than HDV, and the necessity to use P2 cards. Consequently that may have a serious impact on your workflow, and/or need the purchase of extra P2 cards or some form of field download system. Whilst what Steven says is true, many people have come to the conclusion that the problems the HVX brings don't justify any advantages it may have - only you can decide how it fits for you.
I'm not sure how the prices will work out, but it's also worth now looking at the S270 and Z7.
It was a better lens for my needs! And a better camera for needs!
Is it better down south or up north?
Is gordon brown better than tony blair?
Is the Z1 a better camera than the V1?
its all about opinions and everyone is entitled to their own in an open forum.
It was a better lens for my needs! And a better camera for needs!
I endorse that remark, surely it is all about needs?
Just like to say that as a nature photographer the Z1 and the Canon A1 are too big, too heavy while the V1 is more compact and lighter, very important when carrying up hills and down dales, then the combination of the lovely 20 x zoom and progressive scan for elimination of interlace artifacts, I could go on, horses for courses surely?
I use the Canon XLH1 and also have the little HV10 which by the way is a very good camera
i have also used the Z1 and the FX1 and all are very good camera's and produce a excellent picture
But i had a difficult choice because i do nature programs + weddings, and corporate videos
the Canon with its interchangeable Len's capabilities is a must for wildlife films but is not needed for weddings, and the form factor of the canon makes it for tripod work and i would prefer the Sony's for wedding work
The best thing to do is try them out and find the one that suits you because they are all very close in the picture quality ratings
Ask yourself why you want a new camera. If you have no pressing need, the next generation of Sony cams already mentioned are good arguments for waiting a few months, IMHO. If you need one in the next few weeks, find a dealer that has all three candidates and try them out - or maybe hire them for a day. As has been said, they are all great cameras but you won't know which you like best until you have them in your hands.
I went for the XH-A1 because of it's picture quality, long zoom, choice of audio inputs and ease of use, despite it being heavier than the V1. And it's cheaper than the V1 and the Z1 (or it was back in January). Don't be put off by the small LCD. It's very bright, very clear and perfectly usable. Alan R's endorsement should put it to the top of your short-list, too.
HTH