Alternatives to Adobe?

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Toni Fine
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

Have bought Pinnacle DV500 and it's running very well on dedicated machine....PIII 600, 256mb RAM, 40gig HD, Matrox G400 video card. BUt..alas, I find Adobe a bit like my washing machine...it offers me MORE choices than I actually want. Does anyone know of software that lies in between say, Ulead Studio or VideoWave and Premiere???? I need for the software to work via the DV500.
Grateful for any suggestions.

neale
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Joined: Apr 3 1999

Try having a look at Vegas Video from Sonic Foundry the makers of Sound Forge. www.sonicfoundry.com

Life is a drink so get drunk on life.

Anonymous

Try having a look at Vegas Video from Sonic Foundry the makers of Sound Forge. www.sonicfoundry.com

No I certainly wouldn't go that route - Its not a very "nice" program. Its dreadfully flawed, and that's putting it politely!

If you really want to know about "something in between" why on eath haven't you tried out other "free" programs. Sorry that's possibly to heavy handed. Here's a few sites to go to and download some of there trial programs.
www.ulead.com - this is a source of two of the the programs. www.mainconcept.com - basic, but cheap and easy to use with most of the features of the "big boys"

I do agree with you about Premiere being "a bit like my washing machine". I found it a very "grey" program. Tryout some of the others and see how you get on. Even Vegas Video can be downloaded and tried out so have a go at that one too.

Surfy the surfer - being a big brusk

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

Surfy,

An explanation of your criticism would be appreciated.

It's not helpful just to slag off a product, without giving specifics.

If you can't give specifics, from first-hand experience, then please don't put up such sweeping statements.

Oh, and Surfy - cut the signatures, please, I find them rather tiresome.

Bob C

[This message has been edited by bcrabtree (edited 23 October 2000).]

Toni Fine
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

Surfy..Good news, Bad news.... Grateful for your involvement...Sorry that you seem to forget that newbies aren't as 'brave' as you hardened types!! Firstly, I don't have unlimited access so downloading can be an inconvenient and expensive option for large files. Secondly and more importantly, being unsure of settings, preferences etc. in dv terms, am just plain scared of adding stuff that may conflict with my Premiere and then not even having that be useable.
But I will certainly follow the links you suggested and look at those sites.
Nice to meetcha.

Toni Fine
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

Thanks so much for suggestion. Did have a look but am loath the spend that much money again. Mind you, am getting more used to Premiere so think I will perservere. Rather think I just want it to be all easy and quick and am realising that it all takes time and patience, both of which in short supply.

dacquinh
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Joined: Nov 7 1999

quote:Originally posted by Surfy:

No I certainly wouldn't go that route - Its not a very "nice" program. Its dreadfully flawed, and that's putting it politely!

How strange, I find Vegas Video to be rather impressive.
Having played around with it for evaluation purposes I find that with a decent editing system (PIII or preferably dual PIII) you'll get astonishing realtime preview. I got up to 4 PIP, superimposed titles, with realtime output to video monitor on a dual PII-500.
And the sound-editing tools which are integrated are pretty powerful. I do think the learning curve could be high, most possibly as high as Premiere, maybe even higher, given the more power tools you can use.
The interface is intuitive though and is much better than premiere 10-windows screen filler, which is basically the thing that I really hate about premiere, the very very clumsy gui.
You will need a decent machine though, with a expensive graphics card and fast processors.

quote:I do agree with you about Premiere being "a bit like my washing machine". I found it a very "grey" program.

Well you can allways change the windows colour scheme. START -> Windows -> Control Panel -> Display Settings -> Appearance -> Schemes. To me Premiere is a very "pink" program, I guess it's a personal flavor

Hendrik

[This message has been edited by dacquinh (edited 23 October 2000).]

neale
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Joined: Apr 3 1999

I must say i tried the demo of Vegas Video on a demo disk obtained from the IBC show and i found it great.I would also think with a few improvement it will be a strong player in this field.
Saying that Premiere has lots of friends out here, if you find all the bells and whistles too much, DONT USE THEM.

Life is a drink so get drunk on life.

Anonymous

I'll come back to you on the VegasVideo - again its a personal opinion, why come back - because unlike "All Hours" Crabtree I want to go to bed!

Isn't it fun stirring up a stagnant pool - I'm very please that other members have decided to input, This site was going days without new input!

As to Bob "request" to cut the handles - Tough, they're there to add a smile to my face and to others - if you're a tiresome old sod who hasn't got any humour left in him then you're very sad!

Surfy the surfer - laughing at you Crabbers

neale
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Joined: Apr 3 1999

Now now girls

Life is a drink so get drunk on life.

ChrisG
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Joined: Apr 10 1999

Well an interesting debate underneath it all. I think at the end of the day we are all being a bit greedy in what we expect of a single program. Think back a few years ago to what was achievable with your Amiga and Scala/Edit-mate etc! One of the aspects that I have found with Premiere is that if you persevere it develops along with your skills and does make you become quite disciplined in your approach, something that the simpler programs don't neccessarily do. At the end of the day most of us can't afford every piece of software available. Perhaps different combinations of programs mean that we all develop our own styles? - Sorry I may have got a bit too deep at the end?!

Chris

[This message has been edited by ChrisG (edited 24 October 2000).]

[This message has been edited by ChrisG (edited 24 October 2000).]

Anonymous

Alternatives to Adobe

Toni Fine,

Gee Toni have I come in for some flak!

Never mind, I hope my initial response didn't upset you to much, comes of being tired and
seeing similar quests. Not that yours wasn't warranted. I'm glad to hear you're persevering
with Adobe Premiere.

Sorry to hear of your restricted use on the Net - this is an excellent source of data
and although some files are large to download in one go there is a way around. Many
files are compressed so they can be sent over the net - to un-compress these
files usually requires either WinZip, WinRAR or Ace. WinZip is usually available
attached to many CD magazines etc For the other two use a search engine like Yahoo and look
for them by their name, something should turn up.

Next I suggest you should look for a program that lets you re-start or come back to to
download. EG say you have a 25mb file to download - the program I'm on
about would let you download say 2mb then come back for another 2mb etc. Look for
Go!Zilla or GetRight again use Yahoo to find them.

There are other similar ftp downloading programs around - as you become more familiar with
the Net etc you'll find them.

Not all sites allow for re-starting of a download - usually its the ftp sites.

Get these or similar and have a go at downloading a different program - I'll get back
to you again with further info.

Although the download will be slowed, you can surf the net while downloading a program.

Compatability question.

WE should have answered this one. I'm not aware of any problems with any of the
mentioned software being on a computer at the same time - whether DV500 could activate
the software re capture or downloading has to be answered by someone else - this is
open to anybody else to assist Toni. (or anybody else with a similar request)

VideoVegas
neale,

Sorry mate but I have to put my hand up and say - I stirred up a hornets nest with my
remarks about Video Vegas - as was the intention - Playing the "Devils Advocate" and as a
"good un" you responded.

Though I must say I don't think a beginner should be encouraged to purchase a "beta" program
or to go and spend further money when she's in difficulty with the one she has already.
(And for that I'm just as guilty)
No doubt somebody will say something about the "beta" snipe. Well I'd like to finish a
product off as a DVD mpeg2, this isn't available with this program - and it should
have been!!! The "beta" tag is really also tongue in cheek because I expect little
flaws will turn up and require change. And we're the ones who'll spot them.

You'll see I encouraged the trying out of the VideoVegas program!

Other comments.

Premiere - grey and washing machine - umm! How can I answer this one without gaining
further critisim and yet encouraging comment. OK here goes. There are a number of
programs around and for some reason there is a poliferation of "dark" coloured editing
programs. Now I have 2 monitors and both have large screens, not all are blessed. I have
eyes that need glasses (ageism problem), like many of you - so the grey bit was a hit at
the time line colour - that's it.

The Washing Machine tag was supportive - and really a sympathetic understanding of a problem
faced by anybody new to a program. A case of which does what? And what will happen if I do
this? Followed by "Oh my God what have I done" scenario? Perhaps that didn't come
across - I'll hit the spot next time.

Critisim of a program
To Bobbie darling,

re VideoVegas, explained above - if I get that initial feeling
for a program that I think is unfinnished and overpriced then that's my opinion. If you don't
like that then make your case. I'm well aquainted with your use of the word as a sword and
your intent to wound - so let fly mate but be prepared for the same.

However Bob, I don't feel this is the site for too much Vegas bashing or praising for this
you'd better place VideoVegas in its own page and await comment. Comments not just
from me, I hope, from the likes of "neale" and co.

The "not a very"nice"" comment on VegasVideo merely refers to its inability to make mpeg
and was a "fustration comment".

So Bob's worries over this will be eased, I only comment from first hand experience I DO NOT
pontificate on issues/programs that I'm not conversent with. Whatever types of bell or
dingle dangle they have!

Finally,

Anybody else wants a whistle and a pop? If you do, confine it to another page - and ensure
that when you answer a question like Toni's you give it the fullest of content and not
add to a dig - try starting off by looking at what Toni was after - info, help. Look to
yourselves if you indulged only in anything else. Hendrik, I'd like to see you after
class!!! I hope that's taken in the light hearted manner in which its intended.
More of the same but start a page on VideoVegas please.

After writing all this i've just seen ChrisG's input - excellent

Surfy the surfer - riding on steam, man

neale
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Joined: Apr 3 1999

As i remember the question was about another editing program other than Premiere and Ulead Studio or VideoWave.
My answer was TRY looking at the site mentioned, not go and buy the thing.
And when was the mention of being a beginner?

Life is a drink so get drunk on life.

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

Surfy,

I've looked at all the messages that you've posted and, by and large, they've been useful.

However, if you do NOT cut the sigs, I'm kicking you out. Period.

Cheers

Bob C - Laughing at you (and with a lot more reason)

quote:Originally posted by Surfy:
I'll come back to you on the VegasVideo - again its a personal opinion, why come back - because unlike "All Hours" Crabtree I want to go to bed!

Isn't it fun stirring up a stagnant pool - I'm very please that other members have decided to input, This site was going days without new input!

As to Bob "request" to cut the handles - Tough, they're there to add a smile to my face and to others - if you're a tiresome old sod who hasn't got any humour left in him then you're very sad!

Surfy the surfer - laughing at you Crabbers

davideo0
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Joined: Aug 18 1999

Ahem .... more cucumber sandwiches vicar?

I must say Surfy I'm just another miserable old sod who finds your sigs b....y irritating
though the content is interesting at times.

Drop the sigs and stay with us...

Gladders
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Joined: Apr 28 1999

Me too, Surfy, I'm afraid. A lot of us are from a generation that saw friends marrying in the 70s in flairs and platform soles. The pictures haunt them still! Maintain some dignity before it's too late.

Paul

Paul

Alan Roberts at work
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Joined: May 6 1999

Me too. Let's all stop the personal jibes and talk about video or computers or both, that's what this forum's for. It may seem boring to some, but it's a great deal better tempered than slanging matches.

------------------
alan@mugswellvillage.freeserve.co.uk. Delete village for a spam-free diet.

Anonymous

Bob,

Carry on - but look at the number of hits that this site has increased by!

Come to that why doesn't DV Doctor have a "hit" list column. To technical I suspect.

As for your threat Mr Crabtree - usually i call you Bob!! I not at all concerned, i intended to create a spirit of response - which was dreadfully lacking on this site - the trick seems to have worked. I wanted to read a bit more than read about your continuing tirade against a new magazine DVWorld, after all what has that got to do with you reporting on Video and technology and more to do with you losing readers?

So Bob carry out your threat otherwise everyone will consider you a wimp - afterall a powerful editor of a video magazine cant bluff can he? And after the news i've just received the world feels as though its ended.
Just remember everyone to tell your parents you love them - also to video them and to get them to record themselves. We are of only a few who are able to record the speaking and moving images of our past generation.

Surfy the surfer - saying bye bye :)

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

Bye

Toni Fine
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

WOW...I went abroad for a few days and was amazed to find such lively dialogue in response to my original post. Thank you so much for a:lots of useful info re downloads b:lots of entertainment following repartee c:much to think about.
I shall be going to DMW in a couple of weeks and would love to put some names to faces. Do any or all of you dare label yourselves or do I have to use my imagination?!
Will let you know how I get on with editing.

I have found that it does get easier if I perservere and main problem now is finding enough hours in the day.

I should probably also mention that having had some tuition from the knowledgable and eminently patient Ray Liffen, I am actually beginning to enjoy it all and get some results.

Regards.

Chris.
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Joined: Nov 5 2000

I'm using Vegas Video and it is often astounding, I nearly gave up at first because it did things too differently to what I was used to - I'm glad I persevered though.

Bob, has Computer Video reviewed it, I've missed a couple of issues, if so what was the magazine's opinion? I notice PC Floormat gave it a good review

pcwells
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Joined: Jun 10 1999

Chris,

Vegas Video came off well.

Pete

PS. PC Floormat?!