Am I the Russian judge?

10 replies [Last post]
alan wells
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Joined: Aug 13 2000

Perhaps I am adopting the Victor Meldrew attitude as I approach my "Bus Pass", but is CV mag becoming less educative in recent issues?

Accepted that advertising pays for the mag, or at least pays its way, and that reviews of products and new editions of software are another form of advertising (less subliminal than in your face), but the educative aspect of using the software that we already own so that we get better results seems to have been dropped in the past few months. I'd hate for CV to become (like its little/big? sister, Camcorder User) a specialist mag that you could miss for a few months and not feel that you had been away - bit like Eastenders, really.

Do you need a bit more Blairism, "Education/ education/etc"?

As a starter, Premiere is now one of the most-used editing platforms, but many of the features, such as Effects is so poorly described in the manual - see online help - or am I missing something?

Can't remember the points that the Russian judge gave, but CV is in danger of the same!

Alan Roberts at work
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Joined: May 6 1999

IIRC, Bob was asked about this a while ago. His reply then implied that he'd be happy to take articles from happy users explaining how kit/software works. Ben Frain's recent opus came out of that, I think. So it's really a matter of talking self-professed experts into sharing their wisdom.

I offered to do a series on the science behind tv, but it got too complex so I carry on posting here instead. A fair dollop of what I would have written is in the files at the URL given in my profile, but there could be an awful lot more if it's ever asked for.

robo
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Joined: Aug 15 2000

I remember feeling this way back in the days of the Amiga ( oh God that's shown my age )
I think it's all part of becoming isolated. By that I mean that we all start off by searching out and researching what ever we can before we make our ( hopefully but inevitably not )final decision. After that we fall into our own little world of contentment! Other peoples systems have no interest to us UNLESS they are the same system as ours OR they have the one we didn't buy and its all gone wrong leaving us with a feeling of smug satisfaction.
With regard to the increase in advertising, it just goes to show that video editing on computers is the latest 'toys for boys' so the idea among the manufacturers is bound to be "let's make a few bucks out of them while the going is good."
Yours ever cynically
Robo

Davew
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Joined: May 21 2001

Just to add a new voice to the discussion,
I like Allen Wells above feel that Computer Video is becoming a little to “formula” in its monthly output. I would like to see a little more in the way of technical articles aimed at editing and effects even if they were not aimed at my particular hardware. After all its always interesting to see that other hardware platforms can offer. Failing that, how about monthly specials with a few extra pages aimed at a particular package, problems or editing techniques etc. for say Matrox RT2000 one month and for Pinnacle products another, etc.

Constant reviews of products are all well and good but if are really looking at something new to buy how often does that product come up for review before you have already gone and bought it, not often in my case I can tell you to my cost. Also I find the reviews in general very bland.

Without wishing to criticise the reviewer I found the Adobe After Effects review last month a complete waste of time, only a couple of 3D effects were really covered and the rest of the package merrily skipped by.

On another tack, (and I ask this in ignorance as I only buy the mag when there is something that interests me, approx. 6 a year) has there ever been a buyers survey, ie does the editor actually know his target audience and what software/hardware is most commonly used. He could that aim his “educational output” at the correct level for the largest groups of readers. (just a thought).

Benfrain
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Joined: Feb 23 2001

My general feeling, is that CVs readers are in general hobbyists. I don't mean this as a negative thing, I just feel that is the lions portion of the mags readers.

As such, articles that cover the like of Tims recent W2K articles will go down a storm with most readers, and rightly so, although a smaller portion of the readers would like to see different things done with the mag, and different avenues followed.

However, I would like CV to build on its success by appealing to industry personel as well as home users, that way, higher end products can also be covered.

This is however a dangerous area, and no one knows the mag better than Bob C. Reviewing higher end kit can create higher costs, and can sometimes dilute the aim and readership of the mag and you end up with a "jack of all trades and master of none" scenario like "Digit". This may be a reason that DV World went up the pipe.

I'd love to see SD and HD edit equipment reviewed. I'd love to see articles on digital film making, reviews of short films, readers films etc. I'd love to see info on post production techniques, emerging technologies (Alan R etc), interviews with people using computer video on a daily basis for interesting projects (like the Dalai Lama project - that one poster completed recently) etc etc

But these are just the wishes of 1 reader, and not necassarily the best thing for the mag and its sales. I think there is only one man who can answer these questions for you...

(calling from the North to the South) BOB!!!

Hey Alan, less of the self-professed! ;)

[This message has been edited by Benfrain (edited 02 October 2001).]

Independent Film
www.spiralfilm.com

SIFI
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Joined: Sep 16 2001

I've got to agree with a lot of what has been said previously.

When I started reading the mag about 18 months ago there was a lot of educational features ie how to use Premiere 5 effectively and creatively. These features taught me an awful lot that i was very grateful for.

I too have noticed these have dried up somewhat recently and I find that I scan through the mag very quickly and just pick out a couple of plums and then file it for future reference.

I personally would like to see a very in depth tutorial on Premiere 6 so that I can maximise my potential with it. I find the Adobe manual dreadful and have pretty much taught myself what I know, but I also know I am not using a lot of what it can do. I am sure that most Premiere users only skim the surface of its potential.

SIFI

Simon

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

Is this thread closed?

No!

Bob C

alan wells
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Joined: Aug 13 2000

Bob,

Agreed that this thread is still open - if only you made it clearer to viewers when a thread is moved from one forum to another, such misunderstandings would not occur as have passed in our intercrossing e-mails.

My, but you are a touchy one when criticism is levelled at your mag. - analysis of the past few years' issues would provide you with a revealing analysis of decline in the educational/training content of Computer Video.

Alan Wells

(And when you accuse me of snide comments, they are no worse than some of those that you unprofessionally made about your competitors - I would not have posted this remark but you asked me not to e-mail you)

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

Here, we have a classic dialogue between two old, overworked deaf people, each thinking he is right and not (of course) looking for proof that he is wrong, and not providing the other with any proof of his own beliefs!

Alan who posted his original message in the wrong forum - Chatter, not where it should be, in Computer Video magazine - did not provide me with all the facts in his original email, and did not see the notice INSIDE the closed Chatter thread saying, "This topic has been transferred to this forum: Computer Video Magazine".

It is not normal for this moderator (me) to notify the person who creates the thread that the thread was in the wrong forum and had been moved. My view is it's there own fault it's in the wrong place and I should even have to move it. Anyway, the system adds a suitable message (but, stupidly, only INSIDE the thread).

Perhaps, though, moderators of other message boards, with less on their plate (and with better memories) would remember all the threads they'd had had to move because they'd been posted in the wrong forums, and would think it appropriate to tell the original poster of his/her error and of the steps that had been taken to correct it.

I, for my sins, had forgotten that I had moved the thread (and closed the original - though I did NOT delete or change any messages), and simply went to the place where I thought such a thread should be - in Computer Video Magazine - when I received Alan's first email (which contained no url pointing to either thread nor anything saying in which forum the thread was in).

Here, for the record, in date order, are the emails that Alan sent to me, and my replies. I have made some annotations thus, [IN SQUARE BRACKETS]
Bob C
=======================
*From:* "Alan Wells"
*To:*
6.10.01

Bob,

I have received several e-mails from contributors who tell me that there
have been several more posts to this thread which have been removed from display. The thread has now been closed and I would have thought that it would be only common courtesy to inform the initiator of the thread of the reasons.

Perhaps I am so old now that courtesy has gone out of the window - thank God that I am now 58 and not 28, the way that the world is going - if you like it suck it or suck up to it, if you don't, stand on it!
[NO, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS EITHER, BUT I THOUGHT IT VERY RUDE, ALL THE SAME!]

Bye, Alan Wells
----------------------
*From:* bcrabtree@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bob Crabtree)
*To:* aswells@lineone.net
6.10.01

Alan,

I agree a lot of courtesy has gone out of the world.

The sort of thing I'm thinking of is people making accusations without checking their facts first - as you have done here, in this email.

I haven't touched ANY messages in the thread you are talking about.

And, the thread is still open - and to my knowledge, had never been closed.
[I WAS REFERRING TO THE THREAD IN CV MAG, FORGETTING THAT IT HAD STARTED OFF LIFE IN CHATTER, ALAN WAS REFERRING TO THE THREAD IN CHATTER, AMD NEITHER OF US INCLUDED A URL POINTING TO THE THREAD HE THOUGHT WE WERE BOTH TALKING ABOUT, NOR MENTIONED WHICH FORUM IT WAS IN]

Of course, I wouldn't expect an apology, because some much courtesy has gone out of the world.

Bob C
(walks off muttering and shaking his head is a courtious way!)
-------------------
*From:* "Alan Wells"
*To:*
7.10.01 (Message 1)

Bob,

If I am wrong then I apologise unreservedly and totally sincerely, please believe me.

I have infrequently logged on to CV site over the past 14 days as I am working 60-70 hours per week at the moment due to staff holidays, and I would not have logged on last night but when checking my e-mails in, I was informed that there had been messages logged that had been removed.

When I went to the thread that I had initiated to check the accuracy of the incoming e-mail, it stated at the foot, under AR@W's response, "Thread Closed".

I am going to the CV site now and I feel sure that someone somewhere will be
able to log my movements on the site - after all, it tells me when I last
logged on.

In passing, recent offerings from CV mag have not met my expectations nor the standard that has been available until 4 or 5 months ago - you will recall my support of DV World as competition is healthy and keeps everyone on their toes. Since DV's demise, it is my opinion that CV has lost the
plot.

Regards, Alan Wells
===========================
7.10.01 (Message 2) [4 mins after Alan's previous email]
*From:* "Alan Wells"
*To:*

Bob,

It still says "Thread Closed"

Apology withdrawn

Alan Wells
---------------
7.10.01 [REPLY TO MESSAGE 2]
*From:* bcrabtree@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bob Crabtree)
*To:* aswells@lineone.net
*CC:* bcrabtree@cix.compulink.co.uk

I've just posted a message there!!!

[AT THIS POINT, I'M TOTALLY MYSTIFIED, AND THINK SOMETHING MUST BE WRONG AT ALAN'S END]

There is something wrong with your internet browser!

I assume you are using Internet Explorer.

If so, hold the Ctrl key and press function F5.

If you are using another internet browser figure out yourself how to refresh its cache.
[AND, I'M NOT A LITTLE BIT CROSS!]

Do NOT email me again about this.

EVEN IF IT IS WITH AN APOLOGY!

And take very good care not to piss me off again the way you are doing at the moment.

Your regular snide remarks on the board are bad enough, but these sort of intolerable emails are just too much.
---------------------------
7.10.01 [reply to message 1]
*From:* bcrabtree@cix.compulink.co.uk (Bob Crabtree)
*To:* aswells@lineone.net
*CC:* bcrabtree@cix.compulink.co.uk

Alan,

In article <000701c14f41$20cda0a0$5a5d063e@oemcomputer>,
aswells@lineone.net (Alan Wells) wrote:

> Bob,
>
> If I am wrong then I apologise unreservedly and totally sincerely,
> please
> believe me.

You shouldn't have made the accusation in the first place!
[TWO DEAF PEOPLE, STILL DEEP IN THE OWN CONVERSATION]

>
> I have infrequently logged on to CV site over the past 14 days as I am
> working 60-70 hours per week at the moment due to staff holidays, and I
> would not have logged on last night but when checking my e-mails in, I
> was
> informed that there had been messages logged that had been removed.

Well, who ever told you that, had either removed them themselves (people
can remove their own postings) or had not actually posted them (it's easy
to make the error of thinking something is posted when it's not), or was
just talking out of their behind.

> When I
> went to the thread that I had initiated to check the accuracy of the
> incoming e-mail, it stated at the foot, under AR@W's response, "Thread
> Closed".
[AGAIN, ALAN IS TALKING ABOUT THE ORIGINAL, MISSING THE MESSAGE - THAT IS ONLY SEEN WHEN YOU OPEN THE THREAD ITSELF - SAYING WHERE THE CLOSED THREAD HAD BEEN MOVED TO. AND I'M TALKING ABOUT THE THREAD IN THE CV FORUM]

Then there is something wrong with your email browser.
{AND I AM STILL NOT REMEMBERING THAT I HAD MOVED THE THREAD TO THE APPROPRIATE FORUM, AND AM LOOKING AT THE THREAD in COMPUTER VIDEO]
> I am going to the CV site now and I feel sure that someone somewhere
> will be
> able to log my movements on the site - after all, it tells me when I
> last
> logged on.

What, you think we have software that logs everyone's viewing??????????

>
> In passing, recent offerings from CV mag have not met my expectations
> nor
> the standard that has been available until 4 or 5 months ago - you will
> recall my support of DV World as competition is healthy and keeps
> everyone
> on their toes. Since DV's demise, it is my opinion that CV has lost the
> plot.

You are confusing me with someone who gives a damn what you think - you have shown repeatedly that your opinion is suspect.
=====================

So, that was the email dialogue of two, old, overworked, deaf blokes, each highly opinionated, and with a bit of a temper.

What's to be learned from it? Always quote the URL you are talking about, which, in Alan's case was: http://www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000191.html

And which, in my case, was the url you are reading now.

BC

alan wells
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Joined: Aug 13 2000

Bob,

Wow!

When last we communicated, it looked like "pistols at dawn". But I thank you for all the effort that you have put into the above response, and of course you are right in everything you write.

Knowing the messageboard as you do, you know where to look for things and how the whole thing hangs to-gether. As a hobbyist video editing user and a learner driver when it comes to the use of "The Net" and this messageboard, mistakes like I have made (and been wound up about by other e-mails I received from other obvious messageboard novices) can so easily arise.

However, regardless, that is no excuse for being abusive and I do sincerely apologise.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and perhaps there are times when an opinion is better stated privately by e-mail one-to-one rather than stated for a viewing public.

I hope that I am still on your Christmas card list!

Alan Wells

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

Alan,

No problem.

Oh, but no one's on my Christmas card list at the moment, cos I can't get my inkjet label printer to print labels under Win2K or Win XP!

Actually, that's a damn lie. I can print to labels in that printer in one of two ways - using a copy of Win98SE running on my Win2K machine's desktop under Virtual PC, or using the 98SE boot option on the Win XP machine.

Cheers

Bob