American vs European Music Videos

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tesa
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Joined: Jan 30 2004

Does any one know why music videos shot in America are so different from the ones shot in Europe? I noticed that the image on the european ones are sharper whereas the american versions have that filling of being filmed smoother and on film and the colors look much saturated. Any ideas?

mooblie
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Joined: Apr 27 2001

Maybe you are seeing the difference between NTSC and PAL, and you prefer NTSC?

Martin - DVdoctor in moderation. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

stoo
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Joined: May 28 2001

When you say American versions do you mean when you see the same video on American TV/play back? If so it can be down to the faster frame rate or the fact you prefer the look of ntsc.
The European vids are proberly not being shot on film, which is why they don’t have the same look. Also the USA vids are proberly filmed in locations with better light, as in geographical location.

tesa
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Joined: Jan 30 2004

quote:Originally posted by mooblie:
Maybe you are seeing the difference between NTSC and PAL, and you prefer NTSC?


I live in Europe and watch videos made mainly in America and Europe , e.g., videos shown on MTV and local European television channels. So TV is broadcasted on PAL not NTSC.
tesa
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Joined: Jan 30 2004

quote:Originally posted by stoo:
When you say American versions do you mean when you see the same video on American TV/play back? If so it can be down to the faster frame rate or the fact you prefer the look of ntsc.
The European vids are proberly not being shot on film, which is why they don’t have the same look. Also the USA vids are proberly filmed in locations with better light, as in geographical location.


Sorry I didn't mean to say versions, I ment videos made in Europe or made in America, I have not seen videos in America yet only in Europe (americans and europeans) through my tv (PAL). What do you mean by "USA vids are proberly filmed in locations with better light, as in geographical location", are you talking about lighting and/or weather conditions?
StevenBagley
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Joined: Aug 14 2000

You are seeing too things,

One, is a difference in taste on how things are graded (Europe tends to go for less saturated stuff, whereas the americans like everyone to appear gold )

Secondly, you are seeing the difference between pristine 25fps footage with 576 lines of resolution (most likely 35mm film still) and 24fps with 3:2 pulldown added and then standards converted to 25fps. The result is much softer picture as a) the initial resolution is lower (only 486 lines) and b) the standards conversion will have blended frames together (You can't use a DEFT conversion on music videos to remove the 3:2 pulldown, as it results in a 4% speedup of the music)

Steven

tesa
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Joined: Jan 30 2004

Thanks Steven, I like it the american way when it comes to music videos .

Would I be able to achieve the same result when using video instead of using film, i.e a more color saturated and softer picture.

stoo
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Joined: May 28 2001

"As in geographical location", are you talking about lighting and/or weather conditions?"

The light in some locations is a warmer colour and for longer than in the UK. I’ve noticed this when filming in other countries.

as for making your videos look like this you could try soften the pic and making the colours more saturated in prem or after effects or you could try using a matt box with warm up filter in it...

RichardB
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Joined: Aug 27 1999

Um, in a word... money.

I think you're not so much seeing the difference between US and UK promos, but between top level production values and everything else. We here in the UK pull out the stops occasionally, especially on TV commercials.

These things are shot on 35mm, they don't have a 'film look', they are actually shot on film. They pull every lamp out of the truck (pre-rigging takes a day, and just tweaking takes till after lunch) and because the DOP has more light than God they can play all sorts of games with the shutter speeds and film speed. Lots of light and a high shutter speed (ie, dropping the shutter down to 45 degrees or less) gives you a very sharp, very fluid effect which is great for dance sequences.

Because of the nature of promos you can also use lighting solutions not appropriate to drama: a lighting ring (doughnut mount) for example, which is normally just for fashion shoots or beauty products.

Because the footage is of such a high quality it can then withstand as much post-prod work as you care to throw at it, days and days in flame crushing the blacks, ramping up the colours, oh, all the toys.

These are not easy effects to replicate: lamps cost money, time to light properly costs money, DV resolution doesn't have a lot spare, and colour work in DV is not a great success. Better to use the characteristics of the medium you're using to your advantage, rather than try and duplicate something from the other end of the scale.

Hth
Rb

geoffboyle
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Joined: Jan 10 2003

There is a huge tendency to use a feature of the Da Vinci colour corrector called skin diffusion in the US at the moment.

It's one of those things that comes into fashion for a while and then vanishes :)

It's a feature that allows you to selectevely defocus or glow skin tones.

This is a proprietary Da Vinci effect and one of the reasons you don't see it on Europenan made videos is that most of the post houses here use Pogle not DA Vinci.

------------------
Cheers

Geoff Boyle FBKS

Director of Photography
EU based
cinematography.net/geoff

Cheers

Geoff Boyle FBKS

Director of Photography
EU based
www.cinematography.net/geoff

tesa
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Joined: Jan 30 2004

Oh, I see.
Thank you Geoff, do you know if Da Vinci is available in the UK or Europe, any ideas how much this can cost?
And also, do you know if there is any reason for not using Da Vinci in Europe and using Pogle instead?.
Thank you very much.

StevenBagley
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Joined: Aug 14 2000

tesa,

You might be interested in this article on DV.com
http://www.dv.com/features/features_item.jhtml?category=Archive&LookupId=/xml/feature/2003/christiansen0503

you'll have to register to read it, but it's well worth it for the amount of useful information on that site.

Steven