Hi all,
Got a PlayStation 3 last Fiday, as you will know this is currently the most affordable way to get a Blue-Ray player.
Now I have my eye on the LG GBWH10N 4x Blu-Ray Writer, a 4 speed burner that sells for for only £409.99 from SVP.
Has anyone used one of these yet? In fact is anyone at all here burning Blue-Ray yet?
Thanks!
We're all watching you, Claire!
Ha!
Hi
DVD Studio Pro 4 (on a G5 or Intel Mac only) can burn red-laser HD-DVDs (no menu, just the movie) on an ordinary DVD-R that play on a Toshiba HD-DVD player in red-laser mode (for existing SD DVDs).
The $64,000 question is can the PSP3's DVD player play existing DVDs, and if so does it play such a DVD SP HD disk?
On the final day of this year's Video Forum I listened to a rather hoarse David Clarke (not surprising, poor chap, after 3 days of giving talks!) outlining the attempts by DVC to burn satisfactory Blu-ray disks. It brought to mind the 'burning dual-layer' problems of three years ago, where theoretically everything should all work together but in practice it was just too unreliable.
Maybe David, Richard & Co have had better luck since then, but there is an urgent need for a supplier prepared to put their head above the parapet and offer an integrated solution of software, hardware and media that reliably burns high-definition disks.
I, for one, am very much in the market for such a solution - but I'm blowed if I'm going to spend a lot of time and money buying software, hardware and media separately with no guarantee that they will work together.
Ray Liffen
The $64,000 question is can the PSP3's DVD player play existing DVDs, and if so does it play such a DVD SP HD disk?
And not just the PS3, but ANY Blu-Ray player? (My suspicion is it should. Don't the first AVC-HD cameras record MPEG4 to a red laser disc, and if they can't be played back in a Blu-Ray player........?)
I think it's still too soon to be doing this. The player market hasn't stabilised enough yet to be able to predict playbackability with any assurance. I think it's really like early days of DVD+-R burning, where not all DVD players could read +R or -R discs, whereas now it's a given.
Right now all I think one could do is release Blu-Ray discs with a proviso that it will play in such-and-such a player.
I think that the releases of FCP Studio 6 and Adobe Production Studio CS3 with their high definition authoring tools for the masses, in parallel with the release in the autumn of the next generation of Blu-Ray players, will provide the kick-start to Blu-Ray burning for the likes of us, and I imagine it'll be at that point that suppliers will start offering the integrated solution that Ray and others are looking for.
So, Claire, I would wait a few months if I were you! The price of the Blu-Ray burner will only drop! I think I bought my Pioneer A03 DVD-R burner for something like £ 400, and the current model retails at about £ 20!
Claire, if you would allow me to broaden this thread a little, by referring to the X-Box360 add-on HD-DVD player as a cheap consumer player in "the other camp":
Has anybody any experience of writing with the Toshiba HD-DVD writer either?
If I've hijacked your thread - sorry! - but I guess we're all interested - especially in the comaprative success and penetration of the two alternatives, and their supporting authoring technology?!
The whole thing is silly. I went into town today. The Sony shop had displays of Blu-Ray discs, but no player apart from PS3. Wasn't too impressed by the HD on display either. Sky HD in particular was dot crawl city.
Sky HD in particular was dot crawl city.
But surely far, far better than Freeview? I take it you were looking at true HD - I have seen many examples of retailers distributing the Sky or BBC HD channel around the shop via an RF connection.......
I see DVC have started to solve the compatibility conundrum. There's some info on their website here:
http://dvc.uk.com/news.php?newsID=220
Though it still remains to be seen if the town is big enough for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. I'd hate to produce a load of discs for one, only to find the other win through.
Which is why the idea of a standard red laser DVD blank, authored with AVC and HD material, may be very appealing IF it could be played back on either a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player. The length of material would obviously be limited compared to a blue laser disc, but for many uses that wouldn't matter.
I, too, have bought a PS3. So far it has worked well as a media centre style pc running on Linux. It plays my dvds, commercial and homemade dvd-r, without problem. Viewing them on a 720p lcd via hdmi and a Panasonic receiver, makes them look better than ever. Other handy features are cd play and memory card display of photos. I have yet to play a Blu-Ray disc as I do not yet have one tho` this is the reason for getting the PS3. It says AVCHD is supported. If, or probably when, I go HD it will be with a camera using AVCHD and the SD card format.
I have not yet logged on to the internet and used it as a browser. It says that it is possible to add another OS to the system - haven`t tried this and I am unlikely to. PS3`s game playing abilities were not a consideration for me, tho I bought one out of curiosity and to keep my grandchildren amused.
With regard to the format wars, I have come to the conclusion that there will not necessarily be a winner (who survives) and a loser (who disappears) any time soon. It is entirely possible that they will remain competing formats for several years. After all, Sony and Panasonic are two very powerful sponsors of the Blu-Ray format. Whereas MS is a powerful supporter of HD-DVD. I am not convinced by Betamax/VHS history. Today`s competing products and the markets they are aimed at are more varied. The main players are different. However if MS decided to switch horses - or ride both at the same time - then the battle could be decided sooner.
http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/video/filetypes.html
provides info on supported video file types. It also enables you to explore the on line manual.
It is entirely possible that they will remain competing formats for several years. After all, Sony and Panasonic are two very powerful sponsors of the Blu-Ray format. Whereas MS is a powerful supporter of HD-DVD. ...... However if MS decided to switch horses - or ride both at the same time - then the battle could be decided sooner.
Mmmm. But I feel the battle may be decided less by hardware than software. If a perception develops that far more movie titles are available in "format A" than "format B", then surely it makes far more sense to most people to buy a "format A" player? And I would expect this to have a feedback effect - more people would then want to produce "format A" discs.
And there then becomes a dilemma for the hardware supporters of "format B" - do they just watch their sales decline, or do they decide to jump ship and start making "format A" machines? At which point "format B" effectively becomes dead in the water.
Early signs are that Blu-Ray may be pulling away in just such a manner, and the cracking of HD-DVD copy protection can't have helped HD-DVDs reputation with the Hollywood studios. But it's early days, and I doubt I'll personally commit for a while yet.
I take it you were looking at true HD
Yep. The Sky box was right next to the TV in question (it was a demo room with a sofa etc) and wasn't playing the same content as other sections of the shop. The dedicated HD demos playing off HDD or whatever looked fine. Much, much better than the Sky stuff.
Sony and Panasonic are two very powerful sponsors of the Blu-Ray format. Whereas MS is a powerful supporter of HD-DVD.
That will have no effect. What you need to look at is which film distribution companies support which format. In that regard Blu-Ray has the edge. But the loser is the consumer because some films will only be available on one of the formats.
I feel that Blu-Ray was messed up this week. They could have capitalised on the release of Casino Royale, but it doesn't look as though they have.
They could have capitalised on the release of Casino Royale, but it doesn't look as though they have.
Hi
Anyway, customers have voted in favour of SD, buying en-masse the £7-£8.99 DVD version available in every supermarket aisle. That won't have hurt Sony Picture's bottom line ;)
Yep. The Sky box was right next to the TV in question (it was a demo room with a sofa etc) and wasn't playing the same content as other sections of the shop. The dedicated HD demos playing off HDD or whatever looked fine. Much, much better than the Sky stuff.
OK - though it's still conceivable that the job of connecting it up was given to the lad on work experience....... :)
I will agree that with more and more demos on display it's becoming more and more obvious that there is HD and HD. (Anybody seen the blocking on the demo film of canoeists that a lot of shops are showing?) And that is true even within a single channel. The Sky stuff I've seen has been fine, but that's not to say some pieces aren't below par.
[ there is an urgent need for a supplier prepared to put their head above the parapet and offer an integrated solution of software, hardware and media that reliably burns high-definition disks.
I, for one, am very much in the market for such a solution - but I'm blowed if I'm going to spend a lot of time and money buying software, hardware and media separately with no guarantee that they will work together.
Ray Liffen]
I agree wholeheartedly with that Ray - as I am sure do most of us. No one has mentioned HD-DVD so far in this thread so.... Ulead Factory 6 Plus on sale in the States for well under $100 looks interesting: it encodes, authors and exports to both HD-DVD and Blu-ray. That is if I read the specs aright. Any thoughts on this contender for our money ?
I will agree that with more and more demos on display it's becoming more and more obvious that there is HD and HD. (Anybody seen the blocking on the demo film of canoeists that a lot of shops are showing?) And that is true even within a single channel. The Sky stuff I've seen has been fine, but that's not to say some pieces aren't below par.
I believe Sky's HD stuff varies from channel to channel but is all encoded a 1920x1080 at bitrates around 15mbit/s, the BBC stuff is 1440x1080 at around 18mbit/s so should look nicer.
Unfortunately, the new barker running on the channel during the day is nowhere near as impressive the one running last with a lot of the material being 720p unconverted (Robin Hood, Torchwood, Galapagos, Planet Earth, Fear of Fanny) or shot with a 35mm adaptor (Mrs Beeton). Last year, the majority of it was 1080p/1080i native (Bleak House, Supervolcano, Proms, LAter with Jools Holland) and really showed things off. Esp. Bleak House.
Steven
We are making Blu-Ray disks that play - with Avid DVD and with Sonic DVDit Pro HD. The disks play on a Firmware updated PS3 and on a Panasonic Blu-ray player. We have not had a a positive result with U-Lead so far.
It is still early days but for £750+VAT we can add a Blu-ray writer and DVDit Pro to a new HD edit system and then it becomes our problem, as long as you take our advice on what players work!
Hi Richard
It's your last words ("as long as you take our advice on what players work") that are the worry.
To be a successful product, our burnt disks (whether Blu-ray or HD-DVD) have got to be acceptable on all players that are available to the general public.
Back in the early days of burnable DVDs, there were all those lists that people compiled of 'compatable' players - remember them? We shouldn't have to go back to that situation again - hasn't the industry learnt anything?
Ray L
Obviously I didn't mean we could sell one to you Ray - Prem 6.5 hasn't got Blu-ray support and Windows 3.11 doesn't support Blu-ray writers. ;-)
As for the industry 'learning' this is a bit like saying 'when will the government learn?'. Disparate organisations, especially competing commercial ones, never show the characteristic of 'co-operation.'
I suggest if the world was run by Meercats instead of people we would all have less to complain about. Or Lemurs. Or termites or dolphins.
Nurse! It's wearing off again!!!!
Supervolcano
In this case I imagine the flaws in the cheapo CGI were rather more apparent than on SD! Shame also that HD couldn't change the acting of the people involved either. Docudramas IMHO are the bane of modern television next to reality television and celebrity "do something" style shows.
The Yanks are just getting Planet Earth series 1. They love it. Although unfortunately for the US version they have changed from David Attenborough to a different narrator who is apparently rubbish.
Any thoughts on this contender for our money ?
Yes. Whats the catch? ;)
OK - though it's still conceivable that the job of connecting it up was given to the lad on work experience.......
Yes, possible. But what is there to go wrong with an HDMI cable from a box to the TV?
(Anybody seen the blocking on the demo film of canoeists that a lot of shops are showing?)
Yes, bloody awful.
In this case I imagine the flaws in the cheapo CGI were rather more apparent than on SD! Shame also that HD couldn't change the acting of the people involved either.
Yes, but the live action stuff looked superb. :)
Docudramas IMHO are the bane of modern television next to reality television and celebrity "do something" style shows.
Depend if they are any good. 'Seven wonders of the industrial world' is still one of the best documentary series produced in the last 10 years in my opinion.
Steven
Yes, possible. But what is there to go wrong with an HDMI cable from a box to the TV?
HDMI cable, sir? Yes, that's the same as a SCART, isn't it, sir? Now sir, can I interest you in an extended warranty? :) (He says, after posing the same (fairly straightforward) question in two different shops and receiving two contradictory answers.)
Early signs are that Blue-Ray may be pulling away in just such a manner, and the cracking of HD-DVD copy protection can't have helped HD-DVDs reputation with the Hollywood studios. But it's early days, and I doubt I'll personally commit for a while yet.
The fact that Microsoft included a free King Kong with every HD-DVD player, which doesn't count towards the sales figures, and Sony implemented a voucher program with the PS3, with $10 & $15 rebates on BLU-RAY, which means that these effectively free disks do get included in the sales figures, makes the interpretation of the sales figures somewhat tricky.
And the fact that HD-DVD has been cracked, is likely to make it more popular with consumers ;-)
However the above is academic.
HD-DVD all the way!
Death to Blue-ray!
Why?
Well what happens when you burn that lovely HD wedding on to Blue-ray, and someone plays it, during which the player gets warm and the disk warps slightly?
Well, for a start, the blue ray player will need fixing
Fortunately for HD-DVD, where unless you are foolish enough to attach a sticky label, the disks shouldn't warp, and even if they do, the blue-laser diode is located at a safer distance from the disk, and shouldn't get damaged.
Dave
Dave,
Got any evidence for your Blue-Ray [sic] warping scenario? URLs with actual measured evidence? Documentary evidence? Photos? Or is this just supposition and FUD?
Dave,Got any evidence for your Blue-Ray [sic] warping scenario? URLs with actual measured evidence? Documentary evidence? Photos? Or is this just supposition and FUD?
I have no first hand experience, and I do suspect that it is FUD put out by Toshiba, who are the source of the story.
Although, to my mind, it is credible.
http://lifestyle.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=6639
Dave
PS.
Apologies to infocus for the blue-ray [sic] typo I introduced to your quote through lazy overuse of the spell checker.
I had a look at the link and the man from Toshiba doing the dissing of Blu-Ray is hardly an impartial and credible source of facts about a rival format!!! I don't suspect it's FUD, I'm sure it's FUD. Shame on you for a) believing and b) repeating such bias!! AFAIK no-one has experienced this Blu-Ray disc warping in the real world. There's a big enough consumer base out there for us to have heard about it happening by now if it was going to happen. And you can be certain that if it was happening Toshiba would have made sure we knew all about it!
And the fact that HD-DVD has been cracked, is likely to make it more popular with consumers ;-)However the above is academic.
HD-DVD all the way!
Death to Blue-ray!
Nice to see an unbiased post......... ;)
Seriously, if anything, I'd also like to see HD-DVD pull through, since it may indeed be more of a consumers triumph. But more important (IMHO) is to get an outright winner, which ever it is, quickly and decisively. And if that means Blu-Ray, well, at least we know where we stand and can plan accordingly.
As far as the first point goes, then yes, the cracking may well make HD-DVD more popular with consumers - but by the same token far less popular with the studios. So lets hypothesize - if a studio was releasing the same titles on both formats, and then found all the illegal copies were coming via one of the formats, what do you think their reaction is likely to be?
If only one HD laser disc format had come on sale, I'd probably be getting one within the year now. As it is, I don't see me getting one until the war is well and truly over - I really don't want to build up a library that may only be of use for the lifetime of the original player, and which becomes increasingly difficult to find new titles for. And I think this attitude is pretty common.
It knocks on to many people in a business way too. If more consumers were buying the players, more people would be inclined to ask for an HD version of something like a wedding video (say) - and pay more for it. As it is, even if they thought it still might be a good idea for the future - which format should they ask for, even assuming the producer is able to offer a choice?
Hi all,Got a PlayStation 3 last Fiday, as you will know this is currently the most affordable way to get a Blue-Ray player.
No need to be embarrassed Claire, there's nothing wrong with wanting to play with a Playstation, love to have a go myself and of course it gives you a blu-ray player.
On a more serious note, when a customer asks me for a high def DVD I'll take a bit of interest in seeing where we are with it all.
An alternative HD solution, which could catch on, is to use AVCHD. This will play on PS3 either via SD cards/memory sticks of from DVD. According to posts on the new unofficial Edius forum, the quality is very good. I got this comment back from a user:
"Just burn your file as "Data" onto your dvd disc and PS3 will play it just fine, or copy it onto PS3 hard drive and play it from there, I do that now to show off my HD demo and it is great, best piece of toy/work I've ever bought, worth every penny"
An alternative HD solution, which could catch on, is to use AVCHD. This will play on PS3 either via SD cards/memory sticks of from DVD. According to posts on the new unofficial Edius forum,
Could you post a link to the Edius forum, done a search can't find it.
I must say that am really hooked on Edius, what other sytem for £3k can link up to a Digibeta, legalise the file, and output it while you're having a cup of tea.
So fast to use as well.
Hi Claire,
We're hanging out at
http://www.ediussupport.com/forums/index.php
and the thread you're interested in is at
http://www.ediussupport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=56
I wish I could like Edius as much as you. The more I use it (and I've been using it since version 1) the less I like it. Yes, it's fast, it's stable (crashproof, even) but its vagaries and inconsistencies and unfixed bugs allied with the lack of customer concern shown by TGVCanopus frustrate the f"*k out of me. I'll see what NAB brings...
...what other sytem for £3k can link up to a Digibeta, legalise the file, and output it while you're having a cup of tea.
You've got me there... ;)
DigiBeta SDI hookup, real-time legalisation, output via Blackmagic or Kona Io or card - easy-peasy. Web browsing at the same time (though I don't if its a proper tape playout...)
Even got heat-transfer with liquid-coolant. But for the life of me I can't find the tea-urn outlet tap on my Mac :(
You are not restricted to AVCHD, the PS3 will play raw m2t files quite easily.
The reason I got the PS3 was because I had already found out it lets you dump raw HDV camera files onto cheapo std def disks and play them flawlessly in 1080i.
That's what I wanted, to watch what I filmed in the comfort of my own living room. without having to drag a computer in with me as a HD playback device.
This has turned out to work perfectly.
So let me see, I have not bought an expensive Blue_Ray burner, nor an expensive authoring program, no worries about will they work together on whatever player.
Of course the limitation of this "budget approach" is I am unable to have menus and I also have a fairly severe playback time limitation because of the std def disks. Oh well, for my own use I don't much care, especially as I found the PlayStation's left hand joystick can let you skip through the movie back and forth quite quickly.
........ and I also have a fairly severe playback time limitation because of the std def disks..........
How long on a 4.7GB DVD Claire? c.15+ minutes?
Martin, I had some edited footage I took of Santa Monica last year which I had rendered back to m2t and the computer said the file was 4,482MB.
Nero let me squeeze this onto a disk in UDF format leaving only a tiny amount of unused space and it played for 24 mins on the PS3 so I guess this is the limit.
I wonder how much longer one could get by using AVCHD format, anybody?
Thanks, Claire.
I wonder how much longer one could get by using AVCHD format, anybody?
Hi
camcorderinfo.com/content/Sony-HDR-SR1-Camcorder-Review.htm
30GB = 4 hours, or 37mins approx per DVD.
But AVCHD bitrates are more flexible than HDV, so it would depend on the camera setting.
I wonder how much longer one could get by using AVCHD format, anybody?
Doing the maths, 25Mbs (HDV data rate) gives an estimated time of about 24minutes as well. I believe AVCHD gives a choice of quality/bitrate settings so the formula would seem to be approximately 24*25/chosen bitrate minutes.
About 45 minutes would seem to be realistic?
Anybody know if this approach is only going to work with a PS3, or what about any Blu-Ray or HD-DVD set top player?
EDIT Whoops! Got formula above wrong way round - should be OK now. The Sony camera seems to have 15 and 9Mbs as the two higher quality settings, so for those I'd expect approximately 40 and 67 minutes on a standard DVD respectively.
Is it possible to re-encode mt2 to AVCHD? Preferably at a chosen quality setting?
Though when I think about it, doing this might not be a good idea since right now I see me taking the disks containing the m2t files back for authoring when the time comes when Blue_ray disk making became affordable.
Unless AVCHD authoring becomes possible?
I am unaware of any sw that can re-encode back to AVCHD from another codec. The new ProCoder 3 does not appear to offer this as an output option, it only uses AVCHD as a source. But, as you have found a way to get HD onto DVDs at 1080i, maybe this does not matter.
I am not sure how the user, I quoted above, edited his data. Maybe he will provide an answer on the other forum. Meantime it seems very helpful to have another way to get HD onto standard DVD discs.