BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'

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rt2000
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Joined: Feb 24 2010
Hi all. Thought this may ... or may not ;) be of interest or something to discuss: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23195479
 
Ron
 
H and M Video
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Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
And at the same time they announced that they were suspending 3D they said that they would be transmitting the Wimbledon final in 3D.
 
Harry

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Barry Hunter
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Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
I read today that the bbc were ending their 2 yr trial of 3D transmission! Whilst I don`t spend endless hours watching TV, I have to say that this is the first time I`ve even heard that they had been transmitting 3D. I havn`t seen anything either on TV or the papers until now! We bought a Samsung 3D TV some time back & until now had only ever watched the occasional 3D DVD with the grandchildren. It`s no wonder the bbc (small letters for a small minded company) view it as a failure, nobody seem to know about it, did they?

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

DAVE M
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Joined: May 17 1999
Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
I knew that they were doing some, I have no inside knowledge so assume that I somehow absorbed the info from conventional publicity
 
They are on a hiding to nothing as they cancelled the media archive, and got flack, so if they continued with 3D they'd be criticized if others pulled out, or pull out now and the same.,
 
Interestingly the Times was pushing the whole "BBC wastes money" but Sky was pushing 3D production and I'm not sure if it still is?
 
 3D does nothing for me, it's telly, not cinema and even then 3D's often altering the original direction to maximize the novelty
infocus2
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Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
DAVE M wrote:
They are on a hiding to nothing as they cancelled the media archive, and got flack, so if they continued with 3D they'd be criticized if others pulled out, or pull out now and the same.,
Very different things. My understanding is that the BBC 3D transmissions only ever had the status of trials to get knowledge of the technology. Aside from that, I suspect they were testing the market to see how they went down, to see how worthwhile it would be even planning for a full service in the future.
 
It also has to be realised that they started at a time when we had BBC One HD and BBC HD - the latter being a channel in it's own right (typically showing "best of" BBC 2,3 and 4, though not necessarily at the same time as the SD channel). Since then, the second BBC HD multiplex has become a BBC 2 HD simulcast. That makes any 3D broadcast much more difficult as (currently) a transmission either has to be 2D or 3D. So if the channel gets used (say) for a 3D simulcast of BBC One and BBC One HD, it now means no HD simulcast for the programming on BBC 2. It seems that the wearing of glasses is the main objection to home TV 3D - it that gets overcome by technology (which seems likely) and the demand becomes greater, then a new implementation should mean it possible to transmit 2D/3D via a single channel. But that would be an extension to the DVB spec and not compatible with current decoders.
 

For the record, it's not "the media archive" that got cancelled, but an in-house system that was being developed to make the corporation "tapeless". It was (still is) a laudable aim, but what they got wrong was trying to introduce an all-embracing (acquisition, production, distribution, transmission and archive) solution and trying to do it too soon. A case of people in R&D and IT being so into the principle that they overlooked the obvious. As said in another thread ( http://www.dvforums.com/forums/bbc-has-problems-tapeless ) "often, the brightest technical minds can be very blinkered".Got so captivated by newest technology for it's own sake that they didn't ask the questions they should have done. From what I hear, then ironically a lot less tape is now involved  - but it's because departments successfully introduced their own (more focussed and off the shelf) new technology whilst waiting for the Digital Media Initiative. They deserved all the flack coming for the DMI fiasco (and their head of R&D got publicly sacked), the 3D experiment is a completely different matter. Worth doing as an experiment, probably right to discontinue it now.

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999
Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
Strangely enough yesterday was the first time I bothered to open the packet of active 3D specs that came with my Samsung TV. I inserted the battery, attached the arms, paired the specs with the TV so that they recognised each other.  But on switching the TV to the L+R £D image (as the BBC told us to do at the start of the transmission) I got two images that were wildly and crazily spread apart.  Useless.  I tried all the other configurations to no avail, though making 3D out of the 2D transmission worked pretty well, surprisingly.  Could my TV be faulty?  Who knows.
 
tom.
Barry Hunter
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Joined: Nov 30 2001
Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
I`ve got a 40"  series 8 Samsung 3D TV and was really impressed by the resulting 3D transmission! Could be a fault or did you inadvertantly set the TV to the wrong image? We chose the "2 Image" setting & it worked fine.

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

sleepytom
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Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
3d has served its purpose - everyone who was interested has brought a new TV. 
Now we present UltraHD / 4k - please return to the store for a new TV. 
When everyone has a new 4k TV we will see a couple of 4k TV channels - most things will stay HD. SuperHiVision will then launch and everyone will buy a new TV again. 

 

 

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tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999
Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
Just allow me to remove my flat cap and genuflect.
 
My steam driven 4:3 34'' Sony Trinitron was top of its class in its day, costing a whopping £2300 back in 1990. In April this year its on/off switch failed and probably would have cost £50 to repair, so it went to the tip just yesterday, all 83kg of it.
 
Just bought a 55'' 3D LED Samsung.  Amazingly cheap I reckon.  It's 4x the screen area for less than half the price, and not a single scan line visible to the naked eye. Its audio is cr*p after the Trinitron but then it weighs 68kg less.  Will it last 23 years?  I somehow doubt it.
 
 
tom.
RayL
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Joined: Mar 31 1999
Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
Going OT slightly but picking up on Tom's point about the failed mains switch, my studio still has a number of CRT monitors (why spend money when they still work well?) but all go to individual switched mains outlets and are switched on and off from there. Saves wear and tear on the mechanical mains switches.
 
Ray
getlostdave
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Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
Only one person mentions the sky 3D changes. (Announced before the BBC made their announcement)
 
In essence, rather than paying £50 a month to get 3D on sky it's now free with any sky+ HD package. However what thy don't tell you is that most of the content is tied to other sky packages or is pay per view.
 
Ultimately neither experiment appears to have been completely successful.
 
I think the new sky approach is more interesting, where the free content, while limited is of high quality and has big name appeal. (David Attenborough usually).
 
We will see if the new sky approach succeeds where the old one and the approach of the BBC appears to have failed.
 
D.
infocus2
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Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
getlostdave wrote:
Ultimately neither experiment appears to have been completely successful.
 
........................
We will see if the new sky approach succeeds where the old one and the approach of the BBC appears to have failed.

I don't think it's really right to say the BBC experiment is a "failed" one. I understand it was far more a technical experiment than a marketing one, an attempt to get some first hand practical experience around the technology rather than be a direct lead in to an actual service. In which respect it's very different to the first HD broadcast trials they did - that was clearly with a full scale service in mind. (And at the time there was already a fair bit of HD production going on for co-productions anyway.) For 3D, they had to "borrow" an HD channel, and for any real service they'd either have to take the BBC 2 HD simulcast away or be given totally new spectrum space. In the future, "Standard Definition turn-off" and all DVB going H264 rather than MPEG2 MAY give the necessary spectrum, and the hope by then would be a 3D channel could be compressed into not much more bandwidth than a current 2D one, by taking advantage of left-right similarities for compression efficiency. By that time, glasses free might be a full reality and then the whole thing might be fully viable. In the meantime, expect 3D to rumble on quite happily in cinema production, and don't forget about the uses of 3D TVs for gaming. I fully expect 3D screen sales to stay the norm, even if general broadcast isn't likely to go that way anytime soon.

infocus2
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Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
infocus2 wrote:
In the future, "Standard Definition turn-off" and all DVB going H264 rather than MPEG2 MAY give the necessary spectrum, and the hope by then would be a 3D channel could be compressed into not much more bandwidth than a current 2D one, by taking advantage of left-right similarities for compression efficiency. By that time, glasses free might be a full reality and then the whole thing might be fully viable.

Well, no sooner do I write that then - http://www.dvforums.com/forums/bbc-launch-five-new-hd-channels With all the BBC channels on HD, and apparently 50% of households "HD enabled" then who wants to take a bet on how far away "SD switchoff" may be. (Even if it's only the BBC.) No, it won't happen next year, and probably it's at least five years away, likely more - but it does mean that if glasses free 3D viewing technology does arrive around that time, it may answer the transmission issues.

Ron Spicer
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Joined: Jul 22 2001
Re: BBC to put 3D programming 'on hold'
My Panny set (bought last year) tells me when a programme is in 3D so that I can choose it if I wish.   Hardly ever bother nowadays because we think the definition of the everyday TV is so good now.