November 11, 2013 - 00:45
I've decided that the time has come for a computer build
It's for non profesional work and I would like to keep that cost to -£500.
I have had parts recomended on this forum in the past that were a wee bit on the expensive side and now a shop has recomended a build with the attached list of parts that I have passed on to the man who is to put it together.
Any thoughts and / or recomendations. ??????
Cheers
Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson
I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects
November 11, 2013 - 06:31
#1
Re: Computer Build
I remember following forum comments over many months before I got a new desktop last Christmas. I had the impression from what I read that Intel i7 was the best for video editing. I am a retired high school media studies teacher and hobbist, not a professional video editor.
So i had installed Intel i7 -3770 at 3.4GHz with 16 GB Ram. Have a c drive which is SSD 120 or so GB added so that the original HD is now D drive of 1TB. Just installed a 3TB external back up as well.
I guess the extra cost of the SSD would be more than a second 1TB HD Since I bought it, the pricing of the basic machine has come down and would not be much over 500 pounds equivalent now.
I had a few extra items added like the SSD, the extra 8GB Ram and a Bluray player recorder to go along with original the DVD unit. Also firewall added as I still have a lot of miniDV tape to edit. I should have got a card reader installed as well but not a problem using a plug in device. I must say that it is the smoothest and fastest video editing system I have ever had access to. Even if you do not go to i7 I suggest that you try to double your Ram.
Gordon
November 11, 2013 - 08:30
#2
Re: Computer Build
A couple of points:
What program will you be editing with? You've been using the lovely Prem 6.5 in the recent past but of course it won't work with Windows 7. However XP SP3 will make it work happily and 4 Gb of RAM is all it needs.
+1 for using an 120Gb SSD as the C: drive.
+1 for fitting a card reader
+1 for fitting a Firewire input (if you capture that way)
Ray
(who has recently installed Premiere 6 and a Pinnacle DV500 (remember them?) in a replacement computer for a guy who runs a thriving business using them. "Why change?" he asks, "it does all I need")
November 11, 2013 - 17:17
#3
Re: Computer Build
HI Robert
Got your PM.
Like Mediaed I would go for an i73770 CPU and change the 1TB HD to a SSD with at least 240GB. You can always add an external HD later for storage. The Motherboard has 2 PCI slots so if you need to fit a Firewire card it should be no problem. As Ray says a Memory card slot will be handy if your Cam uses these instead of tape. The MB has plenty of USB 3 & 2 Ports so that will useful.
Don't know what the extra cost of the Processor & SSD upgrade will be but the extra performance will be worth it.
Harry
November 11, 2013 - 23:21
#4
Re: Computer Build
Mediaed...An i7 -3770 with 16gb RAM and SSD hard drive and I'm already knocking on the door of my £500 target. Lovely thought though.
RayL... I was indeed happy with the 6.5 but it just seemed to lay down and die and the DV500 has developed a permanent sulk. Like no longer out-putting a signal to my TV monitor
On top of that it's an old and slow editing machine that is going to replace my almost dead dogsbody desktop.
Thanks for the three suggestions. I will probably go for them.
Harry... Thanks once again for your input. I will want an internal capture card but cards like the DV500 that capture both analogue and digital footage seem to be rarer than hens teeth.
Having said that, I think I may have found one here. HERE
An SSD is being recomended to replace the C Drive. I thought that it would be the D Drive, where the video footage is captured and edited, that should be the fastest working drive. ??
Cheers.
Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson
I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects
November 12, 2013 - 10:27
#5
Re: Computer Build
Fergie,
If you still have your original Adobe Prem 6.5 CD then then there is no reason why it should not work as well as ever on a new Windows XP installation. Even if you have lost the serial number it is not a problem because any 6.5 serial number can be used and there are plenty still around (including mine).
DV500s seem to be failing quite often these days - probably the capacitors. The guy I mentioned in my previous message is on his third. The Canopus DV Storms are lasting much better, as I can testify. However, if that Compro board is only thirty quid you can't really go wrong and there is no reason why the files that it captures should not work in 6.5, rather than the Videostudio program that comes supplied.
When I needed a extra computer a few months ago I set myself the challenge of making one as cheap as possible from high street sources. From Maplins I got
N40NU AMD M/B with 4Gb RAM £108
WF67U 300wPS £9
B22NK 64Gb SSD for C: £33
B89LW DVDRW drive £16
A22GJ Card reader £16
A36GZ SATA HDD Dock £16 (because all my big hard drives plug in)
With VAT that came to about £240. I put all the above into a tower case that I already had and Robert is your father's brother.
Video work needs big hard drives (I don't buy less that 1Tb these days). A 1Tb SSD as a D: drive is about £500, whereas a SATA 1Tb is about £50. However, as you can see above, small SSDs are cheap so at present prices they are worth while as a C: drive.
Ray
November 12, 2013 - 10:28
#6
Re: Computer Build
Just to make clear that the computer described above was not actually for editing. I offer it as an example of paring costs to the bone. For editing I would spend a little more on the motherboard and power supply and probably add a video card. However, a big number cruncher will cost a fortune and all that it is doing is saving a little time.
If, like Fergie, your editing computer is for non-professional work then when your project is going to take 30 mins to render rather than 10, just have a tea break, read the newspaper , and think of the money you saved.
Ray
November 13, 2013 - 03:49
#7
Re: Computer Build
I remember years ago when I was using Avid Cinema (a home users' basic programme) that it did come up with a message at rendering " this will take some time, have a cup of tea". It was true and you had the time to drink the whole pot. 
Gordon
November 13, 2013 - 20:03
#8
Re: Computer Build
Am I right in thinking that the computer will work and render etc better if I went for two SSD's, Say a 120 for the 'C' and a 250 for the 'D'.
Am I also right in thinking that I should then go for at least 8gb of RAM or maybe even 16gb.
How do I tell how much RAM a mother board can handle.
I can see my £500 flying out the window.
Cheers.
Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson
I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects
November 13, 2013 - 12:55
#9
Re: Computer Build
HI Robert
250 SSD for the "C" drive and at least a 1TB for "D" drive and if your finances can stretch to 16GB RAM then go for it especially if you are editing HD or AVCHD. For RAM slots check this out. There are 4 on this MB
So go on Robert break the Bank or take out some Equity Release.
.
Harry
November 13, 2013 - 20:24
#10
Re: Computer Build
Hi Harry.
Please don't mention 'breaking the bank' just incase wife reads this thread.
It is quite plain that I don't know a lot about the workigs of computers and was wondering about having an SSD as a 'D' drive because I dont see the point in having a super duper fast SSD 'C' drive and a slower drive at 'D' where the work is done.
As for drive sizes, I have been working for a long time with a 60gb 'C' drive and a 100 gb 'D' drive. As I don't store anything on the D drive and usually scrub it clean after each project, I don't see the need for a 1Tb drive. I always though it advisable to start a project on a clean drive.
In trying to sort out a new computer build, I am probably barking up dozens of wrong trees.
Cheers.
Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson
I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects
November 13, 2013 - 22:51
#11
Re: Computer Build
When I had my first editing computer built, the builder managed to get me a 17½ GB hard drive and the supplier asked him why on earth he wanted such a large drive.
Cheers.
Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson
I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects
November 14, 2013 - 20:35
#12
Re: Computer Build
After doing some reading on the subject I have decided to go for an HDD as the 'D' drive.
It would seem that SSDs used as 'D' drives tend to be a bit overworked resulting in a somewhat short life span.
Is there a graphics card that someone would care to mention that will output the edited timeline to a TV. Just like my DV500 once did.
Cheers
Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson
I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects
November 15, 2013 - 13:54
#13
Re: Computer Build
A graphics card will give you a view of the whole computer screen. What it won't do is separate out that part of the screen which is the edited timeline.
Essentially, that needs a separate card that is tied to the actual editing program itself. It also means that many cards will only work with one particular editing program.
We go back to the question in my first reply of this thread, which editing program will you be using?
If you are staying with Standard Definition and DVDs, and need analogue capture for VHS transfer and the like, then present-day editing programs (Edius, Prem Pro, Vegas, Avid) and their associated hardware are a very expensive sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Premiere 6.5 is actually all you need. The four programs mentioned above are full of bells and whistles but they fall down on basics, like smooth scrubbing. If you are used to the smoothness and speed of 6.5 when used with a card like a DV500 or a DVStorm then they can be a real disappointment.
As you've found out, the DV500s are reaching the end of their life (probably the capacitors). The Storm, however, seems to have been made with a better grade of components. You could do worse than look for a second-hand Storm. There is one currently on eBay for very little money because it has no software but that is not a problem when you are hooked into this forum.
Ray
November 15, 2013 - 18:27
#14
Re: Computer Build
HI Robert
"Is there a graphics card that someone would care to mention that will output the edited timeline to a TV. Just like my DV500 once did."
If your 2nd Monitor (TV) has a HDMI input and your new Graphics Card also has one then you could set up your Windows system for 2 Monitors. If you drag the Program Monitor in 6.5 across to the 2nd Monitor then you will achieve what you want.
Harry
November 15, 2013 - 20:47
#15
Re: Computer Build
Harry,
Fergie's words are "output the edited timeline to a TV" which isn't the same thing as viewing the Program Monitor on a second computer screen.
The DV500 had a breakout box with analogue inputs and outputs. The analogue outputs offered composite video on a phono socket and S-Video on the normal min-DIN. These could be connected to standard domestic TVs and offered the output of the timeline as a correctly-interlaced PAL or NTSC signal. I think that is what Fergie is referring to.
Ray
November 15, 2013 - 20:59
#16
Re: Computer Build
Hi Ray
Yes, I read Robert's post correctly and in my opinion it is the same thing as "output the edited timeline" because the Program Monitor with play all of the selected Timeline to the External Monitor similar to what I used to get with my Matrox or DV 500 cards. That's how I view my edited sequences.
Harry
November 15, 2013 - 23:22
#17
Re: Computer Build
Ray...My problem with 6.5 is that it refuses the to take a 4x3 picture into a widescreen timeline and keep the 4x3 apect ratio. I have spent many many hours trying to get it to do that.
It will no longer work with the DV500 and the only way I can get the 6.5 to boot up is to uninstall the DV500 and even then it will often just freeze up rather than open.
There is no longer any output from the DV500 to the breakout Box.
I tried but couldn't find the Storm card you mentioned on Ebay
At the moment I am doing some test work with Premier Pro 2
I intend to have Windows 7 installed in my new computer build. It's unlikely that 6.5 will work with Windows 7 but I will certainly be giving it a try.
Harry....I have a TV with a 15 pin PC input and it also has an HDMI socket so it will be great if your suggestion works as I really miss the full screen TV monitor.
Many Cheers.
Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson
I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects
November 16, 2013 - 08:41
#18
Re: Computer Build
Fergie,
4:3 onto a 16:9 timeline in 6.5 is done with the Motion feature. There is a set of Motion presets that I've had for years that offer all the combinations - 4:3 in 16:9, 16:9 to 4:3 cropped, etc. With a Storm the more elegant way (because the Storm will do it in real time) is to use Picture In Picture.
Prem 6.5 will not work with Windows 7.
Ray
December 4, 2013 - 21:08
#19
Re: Computer Build
Collected my new editing computer on Monday.
Decided on
Intel i5=3770 quad core processor
Asus P8B75-M Motherboard.
Kingston Hyperx 2x8GB Memory
Kingston 120GB SSD for the 'C' drive.
1TB HDD for the 'D;' drive.
Asus GT640 Graphics card.
LG 24x DVD RW
Icy Box Multi-card reader with USB 2 and USB 3 ports, mounted on front.
Cost was £x33.00
It all lights up when it's all plugged in but I have, as yet, been to busy to try it with any video work.
Cheers.
Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson
I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects
December 5, 2013 - 05:08
#20
Re: Computer Build
Sounds good. You will really enjoy working on it.
Gordon
December 5, 2013 - 20:27
#21
Re: Computer Build
I hope I do Gordon
Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson
I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects
January 23, 2014 - 20:40
#22
Re: Computer Build
Just an up-date.
Using Premier Pro2 I have set up two monitors.
One is via the HDMI connection and the other is the PC connection.
Monitor 1 shows the work area and monitor 2 simply shows the window logo.
I can reverse that by making monitor 2 my preferred monitor.
So far, I have been unable to make one of the monitors show my edited timeline only.
Cheers.
Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson
I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects
January 23, 2014 - 22:17
#23
Re: Computer Build
Robert
As you know I have 2 monitors. Adobe CS6 Project, Timelines, Effects, etc reside on the main monitor which should be Monitor 1. On the other Monitor (2) I have dragged the Source Monitor over to this so that I can view the Timeline when I press the Space Bar. You can just leave this set-up.
BTW have you got rid of the black line, and if so what was the cause?
Harry
January 24, 2014 - 00:24
#24
Re: Computer Build
Harry
From the drop-down menu in the monitor window I selected 'New Reference Monitor'. I was able to drag that over to monitor 2 and openned it up to fit the screen but the picture was very poor and pixelated.
i will have a go at draging the source monitor in the morning.
The horazontal line that appeared when capturing via camera from cine was there because I was capturing AVI instead of MPEG.
Cheers.
Fergie
There's only one eF in Ferguson
I now seem to spend a lot of time arguing with inanimate objects
January 24, 2014 - 01:19
#25
Re: Computer Build
I think the picture quality issue is that the monitor is connected via HDMI, not via DVI.
I know not the logic behind this but I do know that when I connect the same monitor to the same computer via HDMI instead of DVI I get a very poor image compared to when it's connected via DVI.
Of course it could be your windows settings... right click on the desktop and choose screen resolution and check that the HDMI connected monitor has a resolution of 1920 x 1080
Adobe Certified Professional Premiere Pro CS6, Premiere Pro CC
January 26, 2014 - 12:09
#26
Re: Computer Build
Mark - the issue you're experiencing is almost certainly that your looking at 1080p on DVI but 1080i on HDMI. (and depending on your settings the interlace can be properly messed up and may well be converted to 60i)
You can set your HDMI output to 1080p using the windows or gpu control panels, at which point it should provide identical quality to the DVI.
Its not easy to get proper monitoring out of a NLE using windows secondary display, as really you need to match your desktop output resolution to your timeline, which may not be possible depending on your monitor's EDID.
I recommend anyone setting up an edit system invests in a proper output card. The Blackmagic Mini Monitor card is less that £100 and gives you a proper timeline output matched to your project settings, via both HDMI and SDI. This is by far and away the easiest method of getting accurate monitoring from an NLE.