demo film

37 replies [Last post]
barbergraham
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Joined: Feb 16 2004

i want a wedding doing does anyone have a demo i can see

barbergraham

red
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Joined: Oct 1 2000

Hmmm,
To put that post on this forum you must mean;

Will anybody send me a demo that I can compare my own to?

Barry Hunter
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Joined: Nov 30 2001

I was asked by a member if I would send him a copy of one of my weddings so that he could get some ideas! He doesn`t operate any where near me so I agreed!

I later asked for constructive comments on what he thought of it! the reply was that he didn`t feel qualified to do so.

I have never found out whether that meant he thought it was poor or what.

Given that we have a lot of very satisfied clients (many thank you letters) I took it to be that he couldn`t be bothered, so it`s the last time I help a member in that way!

Barry Hunter
Videos for all Ocasions

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

JOHN . A.V.
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Joined: May 6 1999

Barry , As a video artist do you really value the opinon anyway ?.

SIFI
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Joined: Sep 16 2001

John,

I am curious to know why you think he wouldn't be interested in others opinions. The greatest compliment of all is for your peers to approve of your work.

Simon

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Simon, I think it was tongue in cheek . ..

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

JOHN . A.V.
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Joined: May 6 1999

No , Its not really tongue in cheek.It`s based on the old joke "How many actors does it take to change a light bulb ?". - Fifty , one to do it and the rest to say how they would have done it better.
We all bring our own styles - our own artistry, although I would welcome technical critism , I wouldn`t tolerate - "This is how this scene should be shot".My potential customers always see what they are getting for their money. I understand I can`t be all things to all people. But I do get the work which means how I film and edit apeals - I can improve and develop but not use other`s styles.I consider myself a creative not a copycat. A bit egocentric maybe but that`s me and me barrows outside.

Barry Hunter
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Joined: Nov 30 2001
Quote:
Originally posted by JOHN . A.V.:
Barry , As a video artist do you really value the opinon anyway ?.

I just thought it would be polite! Wrong again,

It`s a bit like when you take the time when driving, you let someone out from a side road & they can`t be bothered to raise a hand as a thanks! Guess I`m from an earlier age even if i am a "Baby Boomer"!!!

Next question, "What`s a Baby Boomer"?

Answers on the back of a ration card

Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

SIFI
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Joined: Sep 16 2001

John I agree with almost everything that you say and to me the most important factor is that we are always fully booked. However, I am always looking for constructive criticism, not just praise, so that my videos can be the best that they can be.

Customers can offer their views on what they see on the screen, but another pro can see behind the pictures and give a completely different critique. Both are very valuable in completely different ways to me.

Simon

Simon

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

This is one of the benefits of joining a professional organisation IOV or APV or. . .

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001
Quote:
Originally posted by JOHN . A.V.:
[QB] I consider myself a creative not a copycat.

I think we all get inspired by seeing creative and original video, and it's no surprise to hear of other videomakers pinching styles and designs. At recent wedding fairs we exhibited at, there were at least 3 vidomakers who thought they were working 'under cover'. By the very questions they asked and the intensity of their gaze they stand out a mile - We know we have many original and classy touches to our wedding videos, and have no desire to view other videomakers work. Clients book every videomaker because they like their style, so it pays to produce these videos in a unique way. If you're copying another company's style you'll always be seen as second best.
If you need constructive criticism, join the APV or IOV. These organisations will suggest ways to improve and market your productions, but imagination and originality cant be bought.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

The-Video-Compa...
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Joined: Mar 3 2004

I love watching the work of other videographers & film makers, especially when you see something new. It makes you sit up and say 'wish I thought of that'.

However, there is a difference between taking an interest in the work of our peers, and using underhand tactics to find out what the next man's up to.

Same As It Ever Was! :(

busbyvideo
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Joined: Feb 7 2002

Agree with most of the above.

We can all learn from viewing how others work. You can pick up editing and camera angles that you may not have thought to try. But if you have been in the business for years, there is no point in trying to change to someone else's style. Customers book you (not someone else) because they see a demo of your work and like the way you tell the story, or perhaps you are recommended from a previous job - on both of these occasions they are expecting to see similar work, not something you just saw or are trying out for the first time. Stick to what you feel works for you.

You can usually sniff out the people who phone up for demo tapes so they can start competing with you in your area, but it takes more than a 15MT video to give you the ability and confidence to to film something as important and one-off as someones Wedding.

I rarely send out demos now. With tapes / DVDs, Jiffy Bags and postage, its just too expensive. If the customer is keen enough, they can make an appointment to view at my studio.

It's all right for them, phoning up a dozen videographers and getting us to send out the demos.

If we all stop doing it, then they will stop asking. Your more likely to get a booking if the client comes to view the video in you patch.

Mike

SIFI
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Joined: Sep 16 2001
Quote:
Originally posted by busbyvideo:

I rarely send out demos now.
It's all right for them, phoning up a dozen videographers and getting us to send out the demos.

If we all stop doing it, then they will stop asking. Your more likely to get a booking if the client comes to view the video in you patch.

I disagree here Mike.

I always give the enquiry the choice. I'll visit them, they can visit me or I will send a demo DVD.

About 80% ask for demo to be sent and our hit rate is around 75%.

The main area where we lose interest is when we quote prices. We put a lot off with the prices, but of the ones that remain we have a very high success rate regardless of how they see our work.

One of my competitors refuses to send out demos and insists on visits to him. I have picked up several bookings from people who point blank refused to visit him.

I personally would rather sit in my lounge and watch a video, rather than in a studio with someone trying to sell to me.

The bottom line though, is that we all have our own ways of working and we should all do what we feel works best for us.

One demo I would never send out is the likes of the request at the top of this page. Putting some meat on the bones and qualifying the enquiry is always a pre-requisite.

Simon

Simon

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001
Quote:
Originally posted by SIFI:
Putting some meat on the bones and qualifying the enquiry is always a pre-requisite.

Good point Simon - I've had enquiries from pretend brides (Video Guys friends)asking for demos.We all know from experience the questions most 'brides to be' ask.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

busbyvideo
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Joined: Feb 7 2002

SIFI - I am also willing to visit the customer if they prefer, i just don't like the auction approach you sometimes get. I've been to a house before, were there were two other videographers already waiting to go in - just like an interview. Naturally i just left them to it.

What i have stopped doing is sending out the demos (it got to about 20 a week) i give them the option of coming here or i can visit them. I just think that stops the time-wasters.

I also think that BARBERGRAHAM should come clean here. If he wants advice then he has come to the right place. But i for one don't want anything do do with anyone who works in an underhand manner.

Mike

SIFI
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Joined: Sep 16 2001
Quote:
Originally posted by busbyvideo:

What i have stopped doing is sending out the demos (it got to about 20 a week)

Where do you live? Las Vegas. :eek:

With that number of enquiries it sounds like the wedding capital of the world.

Simon

The-Video-Compa...
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Joined: Mar 3 2004

This e-mail I recieved could be a prime example of someone working underhand:

Hi there,
Could you possibly send me details of your payment terms? Would I have to
pay for a video package before or after my wedding? Do you take deposits for
bookings as well? If possible, could you also send a sample video to my
mother (Esther Kay, 3 Forest road, Aberdeen, AB15 4DE).
Many thanks,
Milly Kay

In response I asked for the date of their wedding, as I thought this would be pretty important. You can decide for yourself.

If they're genuine, they'll get back - If not, at least I had a laugh at how much the name is like 'Milky'.

Same As It Ever Was! :(

harlequin
harlequin's picture
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Joined: Aug 16 2000

suggest you alter above address if it is real.
otherwise
1. you'll upset them.
2. someone else will send them a tape and nick your business.

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Going right back to the beginning - It'd be nice to hear from 'barbergraham', to see if he just had a genuine interest in video, though if it was otherwise he's hardly likely to admit it.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

The-Video-Compa...
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Joined: Mar 3 2004

Milly Kay got back to me with the date of the wedding. I'll post them a demo, and if nothing comes from it - that's life.

At least they brightened my day up. Hopefully they'll have a good wedding, whoever films it.

Same As It Ever Was! :(

Barry Hunter
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Joined: Nov 30 2001

Hope you sent it to the correct address! :)

Barry Hunter
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Barry Hunter videos4all.org

barbergraham
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Joined: Feb 16 2004

i see all of you have been doing this for years and have alot of tricks to make a great day. there are some people here that give realy good advice to others without thinking someone is pulling there leg and steeling idears. now just look here all, i have is studio 8 and a crap jvc 160 ek that doesnt even film right indoors, the colours are very poor. i only film my kids and my friends sk8baording. i have been asked by a family member to film theres, but what with copy right and all that balls i cant be bothered to mess the day up. so if your all to far up ya own bottoms to realy want a date in july in bedford with contact number then fine miss out on the business, others wont. many thanks anyway.

barbergraham

Barry Hunter
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Joined: Nov 30 2001

I`m surprised it took seven days to post a reply to your origonal posting! Was this because you only access the board once a week?

Perhaps your request was genuine, but, given that fact, why didn`t you step in earlier to correct the bad press that was being generated by your request?

Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

BirtyBoy1
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Joined: Feb 5 2001

Graham, going back to your original posting, it would have been far better if you had given the three basic elements of your requirements for a wedding video, these being (in my opinion):-

1. the date of the wedding
2. your preferred budget
3. location

As you have now said, the wedding is in July in Bedford this would narrow down any demos being sent, as this is one of the peak months and many will already be fully booked. You mention that a family friend has requested the video, if they are aware of your equipment, then it is unlikely that they are expecting a professional product to be produced, likewise they will want it on the cheap or more than likely for nothing.

Phil

SIFI
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Joined: Sep 16 2001

barbergraham,

You have a reply to the private message that you chose to send to me.

Phil is absolutely correct in what he says in his post.

I would never send a demo to anyone of whom I did not know the date or venue, or even where the hell the wedding was.

If you ran a business like this I am absolutely sure you would not spend £5 sending stuff to a request similar to that of yours at the top of this thread.

Had the request been to my business e mail I would have e mailed you requesting more info, or as I put it earlier 'putting some meat on the bones'

If you do not see that the original topic looked dubious then look harder and think about it from a buisnessmans point of view.

Simon

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

I think barbergraham's last post is a bluff. If he'd have been genuine, he would have replied earlier to correct any assumptions that had been made. If it was a genuine wedding enquiry, why post on here? why not his local yellow pages?

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

SIFI
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Joined: Sep 16 2001

I must admit I'm very confused now! barbegraham, you only have Studio 8 do you?

Premiere 6.5 thread

DVD motion menu creation

Premiere pro problems

If you are going to post statements such as 'I only have Studio 8' you need to cover your tracks a little better.

So now we know you also have Premiere 6.5, Premiere pro and you are trying to create complex motion menu DVDs.

I will leave the other contributors to make their own minds up about wheteher your original request for a demo was genuine, but suffice it to say I have my own definate views now.

Simon

Simon

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

It seems I wasn't the only one to recieve barbergrahams mailshot - Looks like he's having a bad week, shot himself in the foot and all that.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Barry Hunter
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Joined: Nov 30 2001

Interesting to see the claimed occupation of barbergraham!

I just wonder if that is also a spelling mistake?

He doesn`t seem to have the best command of the English language!

Barry Hunter
Videos for all Occasions
(-*****)

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

SIFI
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Joined: Sep 16 2001

There is a very well known football referee called Graham Barber and he is reffered to as a banker every weekend.

Simon

Please excuse any spelling mistakes that may have occured in this post. I very often mix up B's and W's ;)

Simon

Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999

I don't understand why people bother with this kind of underhandedness. This board is full of helpful members - you don't need to con anyone to get useful info & help. Phil & I have been corresponding & exchanging ideas on wedding videos for some time now. I'm absolutely positive that 'Barbergraham' could have struck up the same kind of working relationship if he'd played a straight bat. Now he's just made himself a laughing stock!!

busbyvideo
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Joined: Feb 7 2002

Told you so. The truth always comes out in the end. Glasgow has many videographers who are happy to share work and advice with each other, but would not tolerate underhand conmen like the afore mentioned.

If he is serious about the Wedding Business, and is prepared to travel, then he should call "Milly Kay" as she is looking for a Wedding Video.

They both deserve each other.

Mike

barbergraham
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Joined: Feb 16 2004

well this makes interesting reading. re the dates, and location. check with the church. its at st peters church, church lane arlesey,beds 5th june 3pm for dawn tomlins and paul straker. am i still telling porkies still? and to stamp out the SIFI and his coments the lastest digital video mag comes with those programs on it as demo's to try and thesers nothing wrond with asking more about how to use them, is there. i have some genuin help re the 1stm post. i asked like that because there is alot of sharks out there doing crap videos. you ask for prices and such but all you get is ripped off. its like going to a car garage you want a tyre replacing and you come back to pick up your car after waiting for hours and get a bill for 600.00 instead of a 40 tyre change. do you understand my point. i am realy surprised to see all these coments, in future i will try to have the dates to start with. i only wish i could have the equipment to do the wedding and the confidence. but as i dont and dont know where to start with one i thought i would turn it over to them that do. it would have been nice to have seen some real help before jumping down my throte. it has made me laugh though. to those that have sent me mails and helped out many thanks. i hope the dates and such will be looked. cheers graham oh by the way i work for barclays bank in customer service in leeds does help anyone?

barbergraham

BirtyBoy1
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Joined: Feb 5 2001

barbergraham

Has the wedding been brought forward, your post on the 11th stated it was in July? it seems for some reason that it has been edited out.

If you were only interested in demos you could have a look here and search weddings, many guys put up demos including corporate stuff for all to view and comment on.

http://forum.canopus.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=ShowOff

Phil

SIFI
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Joined: Sep 16 2001
Quote:
Originally posted by barbergraham:
it would have been nice to have seen some real help before jumping down my throte.

Pots and kettles spring to mind.

The reason I took the course I did yesterday was because of the private message you sent me.

As far as I am concerned I said nothing in the early part of this thread to justify your message.

In the message it states quite clearly that you have no editing gear whatsoever. On this thread I read you have Studio 8. In other threads I read you have Premiere 6.5, Premiere Pro and DVD authoring capabilities to produce motion menu DVDs.

What would you think?

As for jumping down your throat , I believe you should listen to your own advice. The message was down my throat, the response was straight back at yer.

Simon

bruise
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Joined: May 6 2004

a hilarious thread - thanx all!

busbyvideo
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Joined: Feb 7 2002

barbergraham

You last mail reminds me of letters i get from my bank manager. Don't understand what he says either.

If English is not your first language - then please accept my apology.

Mike