Difference between 'Line' and 'Mike' level.

If the mixer is mains powered you might have hum problems but only if the wiring is didgy - most of the time there are no problems when i do it.

Mic and Line are different levels - doesn't the z1E have a selector switch? I have seen a few cheapie mixers that deliver several mics into one mic level output but they're not proper mixers - you should expect line level.

Line level will overload mic sockets big time

Looking at info on the z1 you can switch it to line and remember to switch off phantom power

Thank-you Dave.

Yes I do have a switch for it, but wasn't sure which would be right.

My thought process, was that if the mixer/switch was unpowered, it would be unamplified, so still 'mike' level'.
When you do it with no problems, are they mainly powered versions?

Good point about phantom power - though in my case that's my regular position.

'Overload big time' does that mean ear blasting through headphones, but no damage to camera internals?

You will here the difference if you try an feed Line level into a mic level input, distortion will occur. Set to line first to prevent any damage, then if there is no sound then switch to Mic.

If it is unpowered then it will be know as passive mixer (as opposed to active) so as you say will be Mic level, Maplins do a 4 channel mic unpowered mixer, but not that good really. Active would be better.

For the technical side LINE level is around 775mv and mic level is around 50mv.

So if you try to put 775 into 50 you will get distortion even if you turn the volume control down like most people try to do as the potentiometer will distort too.

You can plug line level into a mic input if you place a 60db pad in-line and a lot of pro location mixers such as the SQN will allow you to switch the output from line to mic levels.

also - just to qualify my statement -

"powered mixer" I generally understand to mean one that conatains an amplifier in order to supply a signal to speakers (ie a bigger vesion of a little mixer-amp) generally for a small rock type band or small venue

mains powered mixer means one that supplies a line level signal (maybe to a bank of amps) and is run from the mains. Some mixers can run from a dc source (battrey) for ease of use on location and to isolate them from unclean mains supplies

try to find out the mixer model

I use one of theses - no longer available
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Soundcraft-Spirit-Folio-F1-Mixing-desk!_W0QQitemZ260203293837QQcmdZViewItem

If you use a microphone you put it in the mic. input.

If you use a radiomic. it's normally best to put it in the line input.

The mixer output would normally go to the line input of the camera.

Thank-you for your replies Mr Cheema, JGN, Dave and John.
Dave - that looks like a handy piece of kit.
It not very often I need such gear, and if I do, it would need manning, so my approach would normally be to employ a sound engineer when required.
This time the client has the hardware and wishes to utilise it - so with the feedback in mind I will give it a test next week.

It is also good practice to split your sound inputs. I normally record my handheld / radio mic onto channel 1. The onboard camera mic goes into channel 2.

So you could take all the guest mics into channel 1 post mix and have your camera mic picking up the audience etc.

You probably know all this already but I thought it might be interesting reading for someone who doesn't and it browsing the forums.

Have a nice weekend.

Tilski

You should use line level outputs from mixers wherever possible providing you're using a reasonable mixer... Most pro-level mixers only output line level signals. That said there are 2 line levels in common usage - normally known as -10dB (consumer) and +4dB (professional). There are better qualified people than me on this board to explain the differences, but generally most prosumer cams use -10dB.

The logic is that a mic signal is much lower level and given there may be some noise in the signal path, that noise will therefore be higher in relation to the wanted signal resulting in more noise on the track for a given input level. ie worse signal to noise ratio.

Also, if the mixer is reasonable, the pre-amps (that boost the signal from mic to line level) will be better quality and therefore should give a cleaner sound.

In fear of stating the obvious(!), what ever you do DO NOT plug the speaker outputs from a powered mixer into your camera as the levels will be wildly wrong and will probably blow the camera inputs!

For more info, try Jay Roses excellent book Great sound for Digital Video. If you but, do it from his site http://www.dplay.com/ as he gets a bigger commission! I should point out I have no commercial interest, but found his books very useful.

All the best

Thank-you Graham - noted.
If prosumer camera is -10db and the line is +4db(pro), this implies imbalance - are you saying incompatible or pro line output will need signal reduction some way?

Tilski, yes onboard + radio mike to seperate channels is one of my standard set ups.
If using just 1 mike, I set the levels slightly different - one for 'normal', the other lower to avoid distortion when some one exclaims/cheers/applause etc.

You can get accessory boxes to convert pro level into consumer level and vice versa.

Canford Audio do such devices.

Thank-you John,

I tested my ew100 g2 radio mike in 'line' mode on my sony z1e and get silence.

It's probably how you connected it - or the output level you set on the receiver.

Give me a ring at the office if you still have a problem.

Unless the line-in is disabled on the camera, of course.....

Thanks John.
It works fine and has always worked fine in 'mike' mode.
I tried 'line' in the light of your comment for curiosity sake.

Just a thought, the specifications of mics and mixers and cameras usually give details of the signal levels to be expected. I know it spoils the fun, but it might get it all sorted :)