Dodgy dissolves on blu-ray

Yes, it's a common symptom of any MPEG-based coding system. They all depend on motion detection and measurement in order to decide exactly how to compress each GoP, so any interference with 'normal' motion will throw it into chaos. The only way to cope with dissolves is to make them quick, or to up the coded bitrate by quite a lot.

I am wondering if you see this poor quality dissolve while playing the actual time line or is it only only after rendering? Also, do you edit raw mpeg or use an intermediate codec such as Cineform?

I do use a lot of cross dissolves myself as I tend to film lots of plants and flowers, I have no problem with dissolves while playing the Blue-ray disc but perhaps it's because I capture to an intermediate codec (Canopus HQ AVI) and am rendering the time line to H.264 at 24Mbps, perhaps this makes the difference?

The data rate I use while rendering for BD in H.264 must obviously be sufficient to keep the dissolves together. Maybe this the way to go!

process is m2t's from my z7 into premiere in a hdv matrox project.

Rendered out from there through matrox media encoder, then brought into encore to build the disc.

I will look at the rendered files first and check the bit rate but i think 24Mbps is higher than what i was using. Maybe i just need to go higher or encode it to something else and see if encore will encode it nicely itself. Encore never does seems to encode things well though.

Will check it out and report back, Thanks. M.

Good advice, and the same goes for fades. I always used to like having a gentle fade in at the start of a movie, but the higgeldy-pokery of MPEG2 compression gives your movie a rotten entry on stage, off DVD. It's even worse when seen on YouTube or Vimeo, where even greater compression adds to the mess.

But for all its faults, the ageing MPEG2 does a remarkable job of deceiving the eye at most other times, doesn't it? You can stop any action sequence using your DVD's pause control and marvel that the blocky splurge you now see passes you by without comment in real time.

tom.

I too convert my AVCHD to Canopus HQ, and use an ancient version of Premiere (6.5) to edit. I get my excellent quality outputs by frameserving into Virtualdub, diectly from the timeline, and encoding to x.264, at a rate of 18Mbps.
The cross dissolves and fades are excellent, even at that lower bite rate, but as I'm not burning to Blu-ray, I'm not sure the results are directly comparable.

As I use software players, or an external media player, for my final viewing, I've found one further process makes a huge difference, especially to the smoothness of background motion.
Deinterlacing, using the Yadif algorithm and doubling the frame rate (keeping the top field) makes a significant difference to the final outcome. Much better than other deinterlacing methods I've tried so far.
It's the only way I've found of even coming close to retaining the smooth motion quality of the original AVCHD footage.

And I've been impressed with the render times on my quad core. The conversion to Canopus HQ uses all four cores, and is faster than real time, and even the frame serving to Virtualdub and the rendering to x.264 with various filters still manages some 18fps.

So I've been able to use my 6 year old NLE and some freeware to get very satifactory HD results (although it has taken a while to figure it all out - with lots of disappointing outputs along the way!)

Most interesting!

How on earth do you manage to get Premiere 6.5 to edit HD? I always thought it only had the ability to edit SD? Apart from not even having any HD presets.

Do tell :)

I realise that Premiere 6.5 was never designed to edit Canopus HQ, but thought I'd give it a try anyway!
So-- I created a custom preset:

General :
Editing mode: Video for Windows
Timebase: 25 (for my Pal footage - select as required for other frame rates)

Video:
Compressor: Canopus HQ
Frame size: enter 1920 x 1080
Frame rate: 25
Pixel Aspect Ratio: Square Pixels

Audio:

Rate: 48000Hz
Format: 16 bit - stereo
Compressor: Uncompressed

Keyframe and Rendering:
Fields: Upper Field First

Allows me to import my 1920 x1080 interlaced Canopus HQ converted footage, and edit on the timeline easily. Black video, etc, is automatically 1920 x 1080 from the preset settings.

Cuts are easy (Canopus HQ is intraframe), and I can add transitions and fades as if I was editing DV.

Can't actually preview the transistions though, and don't actually render the timeline --so a tiny bit restictive in that sense -but I can play the timeline, minus the actual transitions.

Edit: Actually it is possible to preview the timeline, transisions and all, by making the preset video compressor use the Canopus Lossless codec, rather than Canopus HQ.
Problem is the preview files are a bit big -- about half the size of uncompressed --so it's still not ideal!

Outputting is slightly more fun!

I can output the timeline as uncompressed video, and that renders the transitions fine, but I end up with a huge interim file!
So I just frameserve the timeline to Virtualdub, using the freeware 'Debugmode Frameserver', and set the filters and final compression (in most cases x.264) in Virtualdub.

Super quality output -with lots of variables available in Virtualdub if I need them - and I didn't have to update or change my NLE!

Sort of useful when you're just an amateur, with not a lot of cash to spend on upgrading, if you don't really need to! :)

Rogs, you're a genius. Fascinating, and Ray L and I are drooling at the news. And to think I went out and bought Edius when I so love my 6.5+Storm2.

I'll second that! Brilliant!

Ray

Interesting indeed. But don't you have to have Edius installed before you can install and run the Canopus 'AVCHD to Canopus HQ' file convertor utility? And you'll need the Canopus HQ codec installed on your machine, as would be the case if you've installed Edius.

So, unless I'm wrong on that, you have to buy and install Edius before you can use Premiere 6x to edit your files :o .

NL

Sounds logical. And it implies that you could the use Edius and do it all in one pass and see what you're doing, instead of that long run-around.

Well the Canopus AVCHD2HQ converter utility is a free download from the Grass Valley site itself: http://www.thomson-canopus.jp/download/avchd_converter_ev.htm, but as Nigel suggests, it can only be used with the Canopus HQ codec.
I found a freeware version of that codec here: http://codecsbox.com/download/codec/video_codecs/canopus_hq.htm some time ago, but whether it is supposed to be available as a independent freeware download I'm not sure.
If not then Edius, or perhaps Edius Neo2, would be the best way of using Canopus HQ, and, as Alan says, if that is the case there would be no need to use Premiere!

But, no, you don't actually need Edius installed -just the AVCHD2HQ converter utility and the HQ codec.

Hi Rogs

The Canopus HQ codec has been removed from the link. Do you have a copy?

Harry

So it has! - Might suggest that it was not intended to be freeware, even though it's quite clearly marked as freeware?!
I notice that most of the other codecs from that site have also been removed -and some of them were definitely freeware! Very odd!

There's another freeware version here

which seems to work OK - and it does seem to be a genuine freeware download - no 'registration required,' or anything like that. And my anti virus says it's clean!

As I say, it certainly works OK here - I've used to replace the original version I downloaded from my first (now apparently dead) link!

"Frameserver". A phrase I've seen around for a while. There's a few explanations on the net, but can someone here explain 1. What it is. 2. Why it's useful?

A frameserving program will allow you to export from an NLE timeline, directly into another program, without the need to render the timeline, and create temporary interim files.

In this example, I am editing Canopus HQ footage directly on the Premiere 6.5 timeline, but Premiere 6.5 does not give me the option to export in the format I need.
Indeed, the only way to export Canopus HQ footage from Premiere 6.5, and maintain any sort of quality, is to export as an uncompressed file, which of course creates a huge interim file for further conversion.

Using the frameserving software I mentioned - this free program:
http://www.debugmode.com/frameserver/ - I use that as a Premiere plug in, and then set that as the export option.

Opening Virtualdub, I then use the frameserver reference from Premiere to open the video file.

Setting the filters and output settings from within Virtualdub (which has a very comprehensive library of high quality settings to choose from), I then output from Virtualdub.

Virtualdub then inputs my timeline footage, one frame at a time, and outputs the fully rendered output directly, as I have specified.

Saves having to create the large interim files.

I can see the benefit of that to you Rogs, as a Prem 6.5 user. Wondering if it could be of use to me. Used to use Canopus procoder quite a while back, and although I was very impressed with the quality, it became a pain having to create an AVI in my NLE (MSP 8 at the time) then convert to mpeg2 using Procoder. I now use Sony Vegas, and thinking I could get back to that quality Canopus render, by doing this 'frameserve' thingy. Would need to upgrade Procoder (or whatever they're using now) to a version that handles HDV.

Edit: Looks like your second link to the HQ codec is closed now too. :(
Edit 2: Found it again here: http://rs169.rapidshare.com/files/59392413/Canopus.HQ.CODEC.v1.4.0.1.exe

I find that using rapidshare, as a free user, it's often easier to get straight into a free 'slot' when the US is asleep!:) Easier to use in the mornings here in the UK, in my experience.

The freebie frameserver I linked to should work as a plug in to Vegas -and the latest version of Procoder, Procoder 3, certainly has an HDV output capability.