Editing sound with pictures

24 replies [Last post]
RayL
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Joined: Mar 31 1999

A couple of techniques for discussion.

1. At the beginning of an video production the music should precede the first non-black frame by about half a second. This 'draws' the viewers eyes to the screen and even half a second is enough to set a mood.

2. When cutting pictures to sound it 'looks right' if the picture cut precedes the drum beat, guitar note, bar change, etc by about 3-4 frames. If you cut on the beat it 'looks' too late.
Ray Liffen

mel crossley
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Joined: Jan 6 2001

can you please help?
I am using videowave 3 and when I tape to vcr the sound is there from the speakers. However when I play back the videotape I get picture but no sound

RichardJ
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Joined: May 7 1999

What hardware are you using, and how are you connecting the PC to the VCR? It may sound a bit obvious, but video and audio are carried on separate connections to an analogue VCR. Even if you use a scart connector on the VCR, the other end has to be fed audio and video separately.

If that doesn't help, please give more details of your system and how it is configured.

------------------
Richard Jones, http://www.activeservice.co.uk
Home of the MediaStudio Pro Tutorial

Richard Jones, http://www.activeservice.co.uk
Home of the MediaStudio Pro Tutorial - Edition 3 for MSP 7

mel crossley
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Joined: Jan 6 2001

Richard,
Details sent to your www address. Thanks

mel crossley
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Joined: Jan 6 2001

Richard,
Athlon 750
128mb ram
20gb hd
ati all in wonder card with tv out
Analogue camcorder connected to video in on PC.
Pc line out connected to soundcard on PC and running to "video in" on vcr.
RF out on vcr connected to arial socket on back of tv.
Roof arial connected to ANT IN on vcr.
Hope you can help.
Thanks

ddmurphy
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Joined: Mar 21 1999

Mel

You must connect from line out on your sound card to audio inputs(usually red and white for stereo) on your VCR to get sound out of your TV. If the line out output socket on your soundcard is a small mini socket you will need to buy a suitable cable from a shop like Tandys which has a small connector at one end and the two(red/white) connectors at the other. If your VCR has only one audio input then just connect the red input.

HTH

David Murphy

Jim
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Joined: Sep 23 1999

Ray,
Another technique is to run the sound from scene 2 (say) over the end of scene 1 to set the atmosphere for the new scene.

mel crossley
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Joined: Jan 6 2001

ddmurphy,
Thanks for your reply, but I am confused that I haven't got a free line out socket on my sound card as they (two) are taken up by the left and right speakers.
Looking at the back of the pc, the soundcard reads from left to right as follows:
15 pin socket (free), line out (used l/h speaker, line out (used r/h speaker), mic, line in (used) and digital out.
VCR has just one white audio input socket.
Can you please help more. THANKS MEL

ddmurphy
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Joined: Mar 21 1999

Mel
What sound card have you got? I'm afraid if you only have one input to your VCR you are unlikely to get stereo. Take a lead from your line out rh to your VCR audio input and see what you get. What is the digital output? What does your manual say? What sort of socket is it? Unless you connect your soundcard to your VCR in some way you will not get sound. I am presuming that the TV out on your ATI video card is a video only connection and not an RF connection...otherwise you would need an RF lead to your RF-in on your VCR and ignore your aerial connection for the time being. Does all this make sense?

HTH

David

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Back to the original topic. I've tried the sound-before-picture at the start of the film Ray and must say I'm not a fan, much prefering the two to open in sync.

Your point 2) is interesting though and for large cinemas this pre sync needs to be there because sound is so slow.

I might add a third point. When you cut on action I find it better to have scene B backtrack a few frames, such that the actions overlap very slightly. So if the swimmer's hand is just leaving the water at the end of scene A then the first frame of scene B should have his fingertips still not having left the water.

tom.

mel crossley
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Joined: Jan 6 2001

dd murphy,
Yes, I have finally got sound out of the TV.
I unplugged the right speakers from the soundcard and connected a 3.5mm jack plug in and ran it to the audio in on the VCR.
Thanks for your help and advice,BUT now I have encountered another problem.
I have captured music from a cd in videowave 3, but when I apply it to a scene, on playback there is no music.
Can you help again please.
Cheers Mel

ddmurphy
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Joined: Mar 21 1999

Mel
You still have not said what your Soundcard is or what your computer set up and system details. What CPU, what OS, what memory etc? What are your multimedia settings? Let us have as much detail as possible!
I suggest you start a new thread(topic) so as not to compromise this particular thread by RL. I am sure it will get more answers.

David

red
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Joined: Oct 1 2000

RichardJ
Administrator

Should have pointed that out 9 posts ago!

RichardJ
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Joined: May 7 1999

Apologies - I should be more diligent

Mel: as David sugests, please post this as a new query in the General group. It's a Videowave-specific problem, which is not a product I can help you with.

------------------
Richard Jones, http://www.activeservice.co.uk
Home of the MediaStudio Pro Tutorial

Richard Jones, http://www.activeservice.co.uk
Home of the MediaStudio Pro Tutorial - Edition 3 for MSP 7

kimi
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Joined: Aug 26 2003

Hello,

I hope you gentlemen can help me with a couple challenges I have encountered trying to film a beautiful sunrise and sunset on DV at the beach.

I am using a Sony PD100 with an external shotgun mic w/ a set of headphones to monitor, and tripod (of course).

First, what is the best exposure settings to fix my camera onto when filming the different stages of the sunrise and sunset?

Second, how do I capture the true sound of waves / the ocean without getting it all "crackly". How should I set my mic level on my camera? Any advice on mic placement?

Any advice anyone could give me would be truly appreciated!

Best Regards,
Kimi

harlequin
harlequin's picture
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Joined: Aug 16 2000

from my course at sony uk , (years ago now) we were taught the following.

cutting pictures to music , cut on the beat.

this works for me , but depends upon your definition of 'on the beat'.

with nle you can more accurately alter the in point , than you could on linear equipment, and change your mind as often as you want.

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

Thordell
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Joined: Oct 14 1999

Kimi

I think as regards your question of ocean sound, you would probably find it find it better to dub in the sound from a cd of soundFX if its for the sunrise scene.

But I would still take the sound live on the day, just in case you get a perfect one for what you need.

------------------
Alan Hodkinson
At
Viking Video

[This message has been edited by Thordell (edited 26 August 2003).]

Alan Hodkinson
at
Viking Video

Asus P4P800 Motherboard, 3.2 Ghz Pentium 4, 1Gb DDR400 Memory, 128Mb AGP ATI Radeon 9200 Graphics card, 40Gb HD, 250Gb HD, NEC ND-2510 DL 8X, LG GSA-4081B, Windows XP Home, Premiere Elements, Pinnacle DV500.

PaulD
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Joined: Aug 31 2002

Hi
The old BBC TV presentation adage was always 'lead sound - cut". Certainly I find DVDs and videos that have a silent initial logo unnerving, as you never know if your audio replay system has been interfered with/unplugged.

Persistence of vision, and display refresh rates can mean to get the picture cuts to appear to be right on a sound change they may have to be a couple of frames early. For the same reason edits often look better if there is several frames of overlapping of action.

As to audio recording in adverse or windy conditions, I always try to record a 'wild' track of sound only (gash video) shielding the mic from the wind - maybe facing a totally different direction to the video shots .Or if there is another source of a noise problem walk away a couple of hundred yards to record some cleaner sound.
Regards

[This message has been edited by PaulD (edited 26 August 2003).]

Jim Bird
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Joined: Sep 15 2000

\Hi,

Sound namely, music should add to the scene and not be noticed. If the sound is noticeable, then I would change it for some other music.

Music, heard but not seen.

Jim Bird.

CarlR
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Joined: Sep 27 2003

Ray,

Thanks for the initial thread, the first point in particular.

Regarding the second point, cutting video and sound; I only do home video editing, family holidays etc, some stuff is pretty straight forward. Although, sometimes I find it difficult to decide how to transition from one scene to another, my main concern being continuity. For example I always video my daughter opening her christmas presents, there is an issue I always find:

Cutting sound, invariably an adult is talking (out of shot) at the point where I'd like to cut the picture. I suppose I could censor all the adults in the room but that may cause me to be more than a little unpopular !. I do have applications such as Cool Edit and I could edit the sound track, but syncing it back up afterwards might be a tad difficult (for me). I have in some cases managed to fade the soundtrack just prior to the cut with reasonable effect. Does anyone has any suggestions in dealing with this sort of problem. ?

Also how do people overcome *a creativity block*

Carl

Carl

Z Cheema
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Joined: Nov 17 2003

Also always cut on action

erich
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Joined: Aug 8 2001

As an old Broadcast TV Director from way back can I suggest that all sound and vision is in sync troughout. The start of an "epic" can start with a fade in, both sound and vision, that will draw the eye to the screen.

Also as to the person who worries about continuity with Xmas presents etc. The word to engrave on your brain is CUTAWAYS. This solves all your problems, both sound and vision.

The lack of ease in seeing where you are in a transition has not been helped by removing this facility from Premiere Pro. It was so much easier in 6.5 to see where you were in the plot both sound and vision wise.

CarlR
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Joined: Sep 27 2003

erich

Cutaways, this is a new hobby to me, cutaways are sections of video with sound that are relevant to the topic but out of sequence and inserted between two clips to deal with a continuity problem ?.

Thanks

Carl

Carl

Unicorn
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Joined: Apr 12 1999

Basically: though often with cutaways you'll just drop in the video to hide a bad cut, and keep the original sound.

P4-3.06/2GB RAM/2500GB IDE/SATA. Avid Media Composer, Liquid Edition, Premiere 6, Lightwave, Vue 6, eyeon Fusion 5. DV and HDV editing/compositing.

RichardB
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Joined: Aug 27 1999

If you don't want to cut in another picture, the easiest thing to do in this situation is just seperate the sound from clip one and mix it under the new image on another audio track, so you continue with your adult chattering away in the b/g, but also have vision and sound of the kid unwrapping the present. As soon as the adult comes to a natural stop, you can kill the track.

Rb