Interesting. I got hold of a copy from the App store for a net cost of around £60 (using the itunes vouchers I referred too previously, minus the VAT and minus the business tax relief).
I have spent today and some of yesterday running the programme whilst watching tutorials, and, I have to say, that I am a bit surprised. It is not as bad as a lot of the people have been making out. Yes, I understand the legitimate concerns, but, for A LOT of people, it could well become a very good editing package indeed. It does require a new way of thinking, and is certainly work-in-progress. As I work through it, the short-comings may become more apparent, but, I repeat, this is an initial impression.
I really like the clip management so far, and also the one viewer window is very easy to work with. It is great that you can jump between clips very quickly and easily. Initial impressions are that it is very intuitive, and easy to find things - IF you are prepared to be open-minded. Early days though, and I will report more next week. I have a one-off project to edit, and it would be a perfect test on this system.
I've been somewhat busy on other work, so my exploration into FCP X has taken a back seat. However, today I assembled a collection of stills into a project. The first thing I noticed was that the jpgs all came in as 10 second length, even though I had changed the import length in the preferences. It clearly does not work! So, working on my very first part of my first test project, I uncover the most basic of basic bugs. Oh dear, not good.
The workaround is to put all the clips on the timeline, select all (cmd+a) then change duration to 1 frame (ctrl+d, then 1, then enter). Bit of a nuisance.
Hi Chris,
Can you confirm that you can only have one timeline per project or not? I'd read it somewhere but surely that can't be true?
Yes, but the thinking is different to what we are used to. The "project" is (using normal terminology) what was the the timeline, rather than the sum of everything making up a programme. "Events" are media such as rushes and imported stills.
All projects and all events are available at all times, and you can duplicate a project (timeline), so, in a revised workflow, you can create many timelines and save them as different projects. I think Sony Vegas works in a similar way to that. So, I would say that if you want a variety of timelines, you would duplicate them, and keep multiple copies at different stages so you revert back easily. The good news is that switching between timelines is virtually instant. I can see some benefits in this workflow, but, question whether the change is better. Different, not necessarily better or worse.
I think Sony Vegas works in a similar way to that.
No, it doesn't. You can open multiple instances of Vegas up. Each project still has its own bins and media collections. Though Vegas does have a file explorer for your HDD's built in. But it isn't like a media library. Not in the program itself anyway. Vegas does have a Media manager tool, but I never got to grips with it as it was quite buggy in the incarnation I used a few years ago.
"also the one viewer window is very easy to work with"
That is one thing ever one used to say was wrong with Vegas, I never saw the point of a trimmer window and a preview window as only was ever used at one time.
(it now has the option for two)
No, it doesn't. You can open multiple instances of Vegas up. Each project still has its own bins and media collections. Though Vegas does have a file explorer for your HDD's built in. But it isn't like a media library. Not in the program itself anyway. Vegas does have a Media manager tool, but I never got to grips with it as it was quite buggy in the incarnation I used a few years ago.
Ah Simon, I meant that you can only have one timeline per project in Vegas.
And Z, one of the benefits of the single window in Final Cut X is that you do not have to select a clip by clicking on it , or by clicking to the timeline - the viewer window updates automatically depending where the mouse is. I can see that being a considerable time saver.
Ah Simon, I meant that you can only have one timeline per project in Vegas.
I know. But it isn't so much of an issue with Vegas because you can run many instances of Vegas at the same time and copy and paste between them. You can only have one instance of FCP X running at a time.
the viewer window updates automatically depending where the mouse is. I can see that being a considerable time saver.
Personally I don't have an issue with the single viewer window. It is how Vegas has worked since year dot. Yet for some reason people are holding FCPX up as somehow being daring and innovative by doing the same thing.
tried to do a one-off project for our latest time-lapse. 5 cameras, 3 months, about 2000 images per camera. Importing images took hours, and every single move within the event viewer slowed the machine to a standstill - got the spinning wheel for literally minutes at a time. My machine is the latest i5 iMac with 12gb RAM, and 1gb graphics card.
Contrast - same files imported into Sony Vegas on Dell Precision Quad Core (3 years old) with 8gb RAM, all images imported within 15 minutes. Edited into timeline very quickly, with minimal lag.
tried to do a one-off project for our latest time-lapse. 5 cameras, 3 months, about 2000 images per camera. Importing images took hours, and every single move within the event viewer slowed the machine to a standstill - got the spinning wheel for literally minutes at a time. My machine is the latest i5 iMac with 12gb RAM, and 1gb graphics card.Contrast - same files imported into Sony Vegas on Dell Precision Quad Core (3 years old) with 8gb RAM, all images imported within 15 minutes. Edited into timeline very quickly, with minimal lag.
Hopefully that'll be a bug of some kind. after all one of the positive advancements is how quick it should handle media and use the power of the machine
Hopefully that'll be a bug of some kind. after all one of the positive advancements is how quick it should handle media and use the power of the machine
Not so sure about that - FCP7 is also very very slow when importing large numbers of still images. You can wait an hour for a project to load.
Right, for the last few days I have been carrying out my first"real" edit with Final cut x. I had purchased Larry Jordan's tutorial DVDs, and found them to be very useful and easy to follow.
The job was a whole series of about 40 interviews to be played live at an awards ceremony this week. All shot in HD XdCam EX, 25p HQ. The project was mainly a primary storyline with a connected clip of a lower third animated caption. Each interview went straight into the next, with a division of an animated graphic for each award.
Bringing clips into the Event Library was simple and painless. I renamed each clip with the interviewee name. Each IV had several takes, and i marked the best one as a favorite, and also rejected some clips. then changed the Event viewer to Hide rejected clips. Using keyboard shortcut E i dropped the clip into the project, finding it really quick. Frustrating that as soon as you moved away from a clip, the in and out marks were lost in the event. That is a major failing.
Having assembled the clips, trimming was straightforward, though I found the scale of the project timeline to be difficult to fine tune accurately. This caused problems later when i added the titles, as i sometimes dropped them a few frames off.
Creation of titles was very easy, as i amended some of the numerous presets included. I think an improvement over FCP7
I found the audio to be very easy to adjust, with lots of control over effects, much better than 7. However, it was quite fiddly getting keyframes in exactly the right place due to scaling the timeline as above. I need to see if ther is a better way. With FCP 7, we used a control surface, but, sadly, that is not possible with X as it doesn't have conventional tracks. A pain!
I really like the controls over picture filters such as vignettes. Very easy to work with, and effective. Not as good as Magic Bullet, but, really instant to see the changes. can't wait for Magic Bullet Looks to work.
Did some work in Motion, but only scratched the surface, and have a lot more to discover yet. I did not add many transition effects, just an occasional dissolve. I struggled to get exactly what i wanted when i did apply them though, more work needed there.
The programme crashed 4 or 5 times over the 4 days, which is better than I had expected given the reviews. Each time it came back exactly where i had been working.
Background rendering stops when you are doing things in the projecy, but was still helping to speed things up overall. Much better than 7, and a big time saver. I have left it rendering a complex Motion sequence tonight though.
One big negative is that i cannot see an easy way to copy and paste clip attributes such as filters. I found that i had to recreate each one for each clip. You can apparently do a workaround, but it is less than satifactory.
Another minus is grabbing a still frame from the timeline. Very clumsy and long winded - you have to go to share and then export a frame, then reimport.
I created a compound clip in order to copy and repeat a complex opening sequence at the end of the project . I did it wrongly, and left out the audio, so need to check it again tomorrow.
Overall, I have been pleasantly surprised, and the problems I discoverd should be mainly easy for Apple to improve. I think the scaling is the tricky one, and the lack of control surface compatability is really annoying.
Overall, i am very happy
Frustrating that as soon as you moved away from a clip, the in and out marks were lost in the event. That is a major failing.
Hi
In effect the Event library is 'outside' of what would have been the 'project' in FCP 7 - which is the way you would want it when and if FCP X becomes multi-editor shared-project capable.
To add your project's in/out marks use the Make Favorite command.
One big negative is that i cannot see an easy way to copy and paste clip attributes such as filters. I found that i had to recreate each one for each clip. You can apparently do a workaround, but it is less than satifactory.
I think its in the Clip Info pane that you can paste filter attributes (all in one go) then enable/disabling any you need to alter.
Hi
In effect the Event library is 'outside' of what would have been the 'project' in FCP 7 - which is the way you would want it when and if FCP X becomes multi-editor shared-project capable.
To add your project's in/out marks use the Make Favorite command.I think its in the Clip Info pane that you can paste filter attributes (all in one go) then enable/disabling any you need to alter.
The make fav workaround only really fully works when you view fav clips only. Otherwise, you still see the whole clip in the event browser, and if you try and transfer the clip to projevt in/out is ignored. When you view favs only, a sub clip is made
Re filters, will look at that tomorrow
I must agree with Hallark regarding the in out points. incredibly frustrating. Overall I thoroughly enjoy editing with FCP X but have to again agree with a frustration that it can feel awkward to get certain things exactly how you want it.
I must say i love the magnetic timeline, it is so much faster to use (for me) and great for doing a rough cut and going in a nd tweaking. the ease of switching to the positioning tool means that its very easy to go between full bnifit of the magnetics and altering a clip without everything else catching up.
I have not had many crashes on my 2011 13inch MPB (the basic model) though background rendering kills the battery as you would expect but on my 2008 Mac Pro with ne graphics card it crashes 10-20 times a stint (might be Ram related). incredibly frustrating but and it's a big but, I have never so much as lost a trim or any other edit, it really does take off exactly where it was.
I have had a corrupt event but managed to fix it by trashing, allowing it to create a new versions file then reinstating the trashed file (meaning two files in the folder) the new file too on the contents of the old one.
I also had an issue with a ticking of sorts in exported files, this was caused my music downloaded from iTunes in the acc format, converting them to mp3 sorted it.
I am desperate for an update to fix the crashing as I really enjoy it and the crashing is making it impossible to use. i have done 4 weddings and a couple of other projects so hope for the update soon.
Overall I thoroughly enjoy editing with FCP X but have to again agree with a frustration that it can feel awkward to get certain things exactly how you want it.I must say i love the magnetic timeline, it is so much faster to use (for me) and great for doing a rough cut and going in a nd tweaking. the ease of switching to the positioning tool means that its very easy to go between full bnifit of the magnetics and altering a clip without everything else catching up.
I have not had many crashes on my 2011 13inch MPB (the basic model) though background rendering kills the battery as you would expect but on my 2008 Mac Pro with ne graphics card it crashes 10-20 times a stint (might be Ram related). incredibly frustrating but and it's a big but, I have never so much as lost a trim or any other edit, it really does take off exactly where it was.
I am desperate for an update to fix the crashing as I really enjoy it and the crashing is making it impossible to use. i have done 4 weddings and a couple of other projects so hope for the update soon.
Hi Lusky,
Are you having the same issues re scaling the timeline, too? It feels so imprecise.
Re your crashing - how much RAM in your MacPro? I imagine that it has more than your 13inch MacBook Pro? I have not installed FCP X into our MacPros yet - they each have 6gb RAM. They also have Nvidia graphics cards, and I wonder how well FCP X performs with Nvidia? My project has been carried out on a 2011 iMac i5, 3.1ghz with 12gb RAM and a 1tb ATI graphics card. That copes easily. The bottleneck is the FW drive, but that will be improved when Thunderbolt devices become more mainstream.
I think that the promised update (Apple promised it "this summer") will fix a lot of things, but, am sure will still leave a lot of people dissatisfied. It will be very interesting - I think a watershed for the ongoing Professional (higher end) use of FCP.
http://DingDingMusic.com/DingDing/Manuals.html
is a useful and cheap resource for anyone starting out with FCP X (cost me £1.26)
Thank you Chris for you in depth report. Good plain english outlay in the language us amateurs can understand.
In time this software will replace FCP7. But at what cost?. As i use FCP7 and still have not mastered the software i see no point in jumping ship. I understand from a professional point of view anything new should be to your advantage when it comes to fast editing.
Once again thanks for an honest report.
Thank you Chris for you in depth report. Good plain english outlay in the language us amateurs can understand.
In time this software will replace FCP7. But at what cost?. As i use FCP7 and still have not mastered the software i see no point in jumping ship. I understand from a professional point of view anything new should be to your advantage when it comes to fast editing.
Once again thanks for an honest report.
I think the 64bit processing is one good reason, and a second is using all of the processing cores of the computer . We are still using FCP7 for most of our work, but, in comparison to X it has a steeper learning curve, and, for many tasks, is definitely slower for the work done in the project I described. I think you would probably get to grips with X quicker than 7, but, whether it will do everything you need - a whole different argument. For me, sitting and watching FCP7 render endlessly is a pain, and that is why I wish to move forward and use the power of our machines more effectively. Will X suffice? The decision is not clear for me, yet.
A further update here. I noticed that if you create a template in Motion, then publish it to FCP X, it does not appear unless X is restarted.
However, that is only the case with Lion - it works as it should under Snow Leopard.
I note you are going to install X in your other MacPros, Chris. Does the one download from Apple allow for that . . . ?
Oh, and editing in an afterthought, I remember noting that the advice from Apple was to not install X on a machine that already had FCP 6 - 7 etc installed . . . ?
Hi Ron,
You can install any apps that you purchase through the App store on the Macs that you own personally, apparently.
With regard to 7 and X on the same machine, that is easy enough to achieve - you just need to be careful about how the apps are sited in the Applications folder.
I'm trying to ascertain whether X will install in my 2009 summer iMac. Okay as far as I know except unsure about "Graphics", mine is a NVIDIA GeForce GT120 (it says under "About this Mac"), wonder if that will be okay as not clear, to me anyway, from the Apple FCP X site.
I have FCP 7 installed okay on this machine,
Ron
Hi Ron,You can install any apps that you purchase through the App store on the Macs that you own personally, apparently.
With regard to 7 and X on the same machine, that is easy enough to achieve - you just need to be careful about how the apps are sited in the Applications folder.
Ta for that. I've still got my original MacPro but have recent times installed a Blu-Ray burner which entailed cutting away some of the fan housing to get at the Sata sockets. Was thinking of installing the X prog on an entirely separate drive after finding how long it takes to edit and burn HD stuff to a half-hour DV disk working through Compressor. Now, after having a go at X in a 2010 iMac 27 with i5, I have noted the vast improvement on time. Not had sufficient experience with the X prog to justify congrats or complaints, it being a daughter's machine.
With the possibility of having a good choice with X on either machine I've also installed an Nvidia 8800 gt which has shown some improvement in some ways but not in others, editingin FCP being the best result.
After reading of the various bitter complaints about the i7 27 inch 3.4 ghz machine in the Apple Discussions but nevertheless seeking to 'majorly' fit up for X, I've ordered a 27 i7 'refurb' which should have been been returned and fully rectified, thus giving me a chance to edit without the problems that others have suffered . . . However, I do note that Apple don't seem to advertise the i7 one, new, nowadays. (Software and heat problems) You can see the way I'm hopefully heading.
Hi,
I have not read about issues withi7 , but so far we have been happy with performance on our i5 imac.
Incidentally, the more i am getting to use and understand x, the more I like it. I am positive that a lot of criticism has come from those who have not taken the time to learn it from the ground up. For our workflow, which is nearly all card based media, on standalone machines, it could prove to become very good indeed.
I have invested in Larry Jordan's FX training now as well, and have learnt quite a bit from that too. I heartily recommend it.
Chris what package of the Larry Jordan did you buy regards the FCPX training video?
Hi,I have invested in Larry Jordan's FX training now as well, and have learnt quite a bit from that too. I heartily recommend it.
Need to have a look at that, sorry I've not been back in here to answer the questions you had. I do find it difficult to work accurately with the timeline sometimes but i am getting better with it. What I do find is that the program as a whole rewards you better if you use the keyboard shortcuts, something I didn't really do in FCP 6 but because of the difficulty with using the mouse the shortcuts are so much easier.
Philip Hodgetts wrote a great piece on describing 'what is a pro?' and I think some of the loudest complaints come from those that have to share machines etc with pros that use one machine then it is a lot easier.
I find it a great piece of software once the bugs are cleared, the crashes definitely seem to be RAM related, as i said I don't have this with a 2011 Macbook Pro 13" 4GB but do with a 2008 Mac Pro 6GB of ram and 1GB on the graphics card. There are other bugs such as after you apply optical flow to retimed footage you can't skim or play the timeline until you click footage in the event first.
For those asking I'm sure the licence allows you to download it to 5 machines. If your not sure if you have an acceptable graphics card just try and buy it, compressor or Motion from the app store, if your machine doesn't have a good enough card then the app store won't let you download, I couldn't get it on my Mac Pro until I installed my new card. Your card has to be open CL compatible that's what causes the issue. that's the technology the snow leopard and lion use to harness the power of the GPU.
A thought, I'm not completely sold on the colour board, I really prefer the three way colour corrector but I'll learn to love it I suppose but the bug I have with it is with the 3 way you have the correct colour opposing each other on the wheel so you have a good idea of what colours you are adding and removing at the same time, so you start to develop an understanding of how colours interact etc with the colour board you are simply adding or removing a colour with no obvious clue as to what colours are affected.
Chris what package of the Larry Jordan did you buy regards the FCPX training video?
Actually, I have invested in both sets of downloadable video tutorials that he has produced. I think the total cost was around £100 (the FX series is discounted if you buy it before 15/09 if you have the other series). The newer one deals with effects only, and I have learned quite a lot from that so far (only on Chapter 4 of about 10, as well!)
http://www.larryjordan.biz/app_bin/Store/catalog/index.php?cPath=64
Listen/watch the free ones and see if they are for you. personally, I found the pace excellent, the detail as much as I need, and at least he tries to deliver with a little humour (even if it does sound a little forced at times)
Regarding installs on different machines, there is no 5 machine limit. This explains things in detail and highlights the differences in the licensing
http://www.macworld.com/article/157018/2011/01/appstore_licensing.html I think you are confusing the situation with purchases from the i-Tunes store.
Lusky, can you explain about why the crashes are RAM related, please? Your MacPro has more RAM, so, I would have thought it would have coped better? Or, could it be to do with the speed of the RAM? I have just installed FCP X on a 2008 MacPro too, with 6gb RAM, and will see how it runs for me.
Lusky, can you explain about why the crashes are RAM related, please? Your MacPro has more RAM, so, I would have thought it would have coped better? Or, could it be to do with the speed of the RAM? I have just installed FCP X on a 2008 MacPro too, with 6gb RAM, and will see how it runs for me.
I must stress that it is only a guess, but when I've searched some of the crash reports it seems like kern failure and googling terms like this it appears that FCP X is trying to access ram the kernel doesn't think it should and shuts down the program. There are various crash reports but all seem somehow connected to ram when I search on-line. I haven't had the time to do any tests as I could have faulty RAM or somehow the way FCP X accesses RAM causes issues on older machines.
As I say I am no expert at this area and would love someone to tell me I'm missing something obvious, as you say it may not be fast enough but it I have no faults with other programs only FCP X. Until I can do tests or get someone wiser to have a look I can only offer opinion.
I'd love to hear how you experience it on your 2008 mac Pro as my concern is I have faulty RAM and FCP X is the first program to really try to access it all.
I must stress that it is only a guess, but when I've searched some of the crash reports it seems like kern failure and googling terms like this it appears that FCP X is trying to access ram the kernel doesn't think it should and shuts down the program. There are various crash reports but all seem somehow connected to ram when I search on-line. I haven't had the time to do any tests as I could have faulty RAM or somehow the way FCP X accesses RAM causes issues on older machines.As I say I am no expert at this area and would love someone to tell me I'm missing something obvious, as you say it may not be fast enough but it I have no faults with other programs only FCP X. Until I can do tests or get someone wiser to have a look I can only offer opinion.
I'd love to hear how you experience it on your 2008 mac Pro as my concern is I have faulty RAM and FCP X is the first program to really try to access it all.
We should be doing some editing in FCP X on a MacPro like yours in the next few days, so, I will let you know how it performs. Stay tuned....
We should be doing some editing in FCP X on a MacPro like yours in the next few days, so, I will let you know how it performs. Stay tuned....
That would be great to hear, thanks.
anyway if anyone is interested here is on part of one of many different crash reports I'm getting if anyone understands any of it
Date/Time: 2011-09-16 13:00:00 +0100
OS Version: 10.7.1 (Build 11B26)
Architecture: x86_64
Report Version: 8
Command: Final Cut Pro
Path: /Applications/Final Cut Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Final Cut Pro
Version: 10.0 (179114)
Build Version: 1
Project Name: ProEditor
Source Version: 179110400
App Item ID: 424389933
App External ID: 3491984
Parent: launchd [151]
PID: 392
Event: hang
Duration: 0.59s
Steps: 7 (100ms sampling interval)
Pageins: 4
Pageouts: 0
Process: Final Cut Pro [392]
Path: /Applications/Final Cut Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Final Cut Pro
Architecture: x86_64
UID: 501
Thread 0x7fec DispatchQueue 1
User stack:
7 start + 52 (in Final Cut Pro) [0x100002138]
7 NSProApplicationMain + 387 (in ProKit) [0x1002f97c3]
7 -[NSApplication run] + 463 (in AppKit) [0x7fff92d283d6]
7 -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 135 (in AppKit) [0x7fff92d2ba95]
7 _DPSNextEvent + 659 (in AppKit) [0x7fff92d2c191]
7 BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 62 (in HIToolbox) [0x7fff8a039aae]
7 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 355 (in HIToolbox) [0x7fff8a039c21]
7 RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 277 (in HIToolbox) [0x7fff8a0324ff]
7 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 230 (in CoreFoundation) [0x7fff8a515216]
7 __CFRunLoopRun + 1617 (in CoreFoundation) [0x7fff8a515ba1]
7 __CFRunLoopDoTimer + 534 (in CoreFoundation) [0x7fff8a5351e6]
7 __CFRUNLOOP_IS_CALLING_OUT_TO_A_TIMER_CALLBACK_FUNCTION__ + 20 (in CoreFoundation) [0x7fff8a535694]
7 _ZN2CAL14timer_callbackEP16__CFRunLoopTimerPv + 171 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94daf1c6]
7 CA::Layer::run_animation_callbacks_compat(double, void*) + 28 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94dc92de]
7 CA::Layer::run_animation_callbacks(void*) + 135 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94dc93ab]
7 CA::Layer::free_animation(CA::Layer::Animation*, bool) + 43 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94dae609]
7 CFRelease + 176 (in CoreFoundation) [0x7fff8a4e5800]
7 -[CAAnimation dealloc] + 20 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94dae669]
7 _ZL18CAAnimationDestroyP11CAAnimation + 56 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94dae6c9]
4 CA::AttrList::free() + 83 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94d9a0e3]
2 CA::AttrList::free() + 93 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94d9a0ed]
1 CA::AttrList::Node::free_memory() + 171 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94d978bf]
1 CA::AttrList::Node::free_memory() + 6 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94d9781a]
1 CA::AttrList::Node::free_memory() + 0 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94d97814]
Kernel stack:
7 hndl_allintrs + 290 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff80002d7bf2]
7 interrupt + 192 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff80002c27b0]
7 lapic_interrupt + 121 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff80002c7879]
7 cpu_signal_handler + 172 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff80002c972c]
7 sync_iss_to_iks + 118 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff80002c1be6]
Thread 0x7ffe DispatchQueue 2
User stack:
7 _dispatch_mgr_thread + 54 (in libdispatch.dylib) [0x7fff92c7c19e]
7 __select_nocancel + 10 (in libsystem_kernel.dylib) [0x7fff91b06e06]
Kernel stack:
7 wakeup + 992 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff8000552640]
Thread 0x8000 DispatchQueue 4
User stack:
7 start_wqthread + 13 (in libsystem_c.dylib) [0x7fff8da4cb85]
7 _pthread_wqthread + 316 (in libsystem_c.dylib) [0x7fff8da4b3da]
7 _dispatch_worker_thread2 + 255 (in libdispatch.dylib) [0x7fff92c7c7e9]
7 _dispatch_call_block_and_release + 18 (in libdispatch.dylib) [0x7fff92c7b90a]
7 kevent + 10 (in libsystem_kernel.dylib) [0x7fff91b077e6]
Kernel stack:
7 kqueue_scan + 416 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff8000537c70]
That would be great to hear, thanks.anyway if anyone is interested here is on part of one of many different crash reports I'm getting if anyone understands any of it
Date/Time: 2011-09-16 13:00:00 +0100
OS Version: 10.7.1 (Build 11B26)
Architecture: x86_64
Report Version: 8Command: Final Cut Pro
Path: /Applications/Final Cut Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Final Cut Pro
Version: 10.0 (179114)
Build Version: 1
Project Name: ProEditor
Source Version: 179110400
App Item ID: 424389933
App External ID: 3491984
Parent: launchd [151]PID: 392
Event: hang
Duration: 0.59s
Steps: 7 (100ms sampling interval)Pageins: 4
Pageouts: 0Process: Final Cut Pro [392]
Path: /Applications/Final Cut Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Final Cut Pro
Architecture: x86_64
UID: 501Thread 0x7fec DispatchQueue 1
User stack:
7 start + 52 (in Final Cut Pro) [0x100002138]
7 NSProApplicationMain + 387 (in ProKit) [0x1002f97c3]
7 -[NSApplication run] + 463 (in AppKit) [0x7fff92d283d6]
7 -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 135 (in AppKit) [0x7fff92d2ba95]
7 _DPSNextEvent + 659 (in AppKit) [0x7fff92d2c191]
7 BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 62 (in HIToolbox) [0x7fff8a039aae]
7 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 355 (in HIToolbox) [0x7fff8a039c21]
7 RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 277 (in HIToolbox) [0x7fff8a0324ff]
7 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 230 (in CoreFoundation) [0x7fff8a515216]
7 __CFRunLoopRun + 1617 (in CoreFoundation) [0x7fff8a515ba1]
7 __CFRunLoopDoTimer + 534 (in CoreFoundation) [0x7fff8a5351e6]
7 __CFRUNLOOP_IS_CALLING_OUT_TO_A_TIMER_CALLBACK_FUNCTION__ + 20 (in CoreFoundation) [0x7fff8a535694]
7 _ZN2CAL14timer_callbackEP16__CFRunLoopTimerPv + 171 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94daf1c6]
7 CA::Layer::run_animation_callbacks_compat(double, void*) + 28 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94dc92de]
7 CA::Layer::run_animation_callbacks(void*) + 135 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94dc93ab]
7 CA::Layer::free_animation(CA::Layer::Animation*, bool) + 43 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94dae609]
7 CFRelease + 176 (in CoreFoundation) [0x7fff8a4e5800]
7 -[CAAnimation dealloc] + 20 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94dae669]
7 _ZL18CAAnimationDestroyP11CAAnimation + 56 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94dae6c9]
4 CA::AttrList::free() + 83 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94d9a0e3]
2 CA::AttrList::free() + 93 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94d9a0ed]
1 CA::AttrList::Node::free_memory() + 171 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94d978bf]
1 CA::AttrList::Node::free_memory() + 6 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94d9781a]
1 CA::AttrList::Node::free_memory() + 0 (in QuartzCore) [0x7fff94d97814]
Kernel stack:
7 hndl_allintrs + 290 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff80002d7bf2]
7 interrupt + 192 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff80002c27b0]
7 lapic_interrupt + 121 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff80002c7879]
7 cpu_signal_handler + 172 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff80002c972c]
7 sync_iss_to_iks + 118 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff80002c1be6]Thread 0x7ffe DispatchQueue 2
User stack:
7 _dispatch_mgr_thread + 54 (in libdispatch.dylib) [0x7fff92c7c19e]
7 __select_nocancel + 10 (in libsystem_kernel.dylib) [0x7fff91b06e06]
Kernel stack:
7 wakeup + 992 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff8000552640]Thread 0x8000 DispatchQueue 4
User stack:
7 start_wqthread + 13 (in libsystem_c.dylib) [0x7fff8da4cb85]
7 _pthread_wqthread + 316 (in libsystem_c.dylib) [0x7fff8da4b3da]
7 _dispatch_worker_thread2 + 255 (in libdispatch.dylib) [0x7fff92c7c7e9]
7 _dispatch_call_block_and_release + 18 (in libdispatch.dylib) [0x7fff92c7b90a]
7 kevent + 10 (in libsystem_kernel.dylib) [0x7fff91b077e6]
Kernel stack:
7 kqueue_scan + 416 (in mach_kernel) [0xffffff8000537c70]
And another different report
Process: Final Cut Pro [456]
Path: /Applications/Final Cut Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Final Cut Pro
Identifier: com.apple.FinalCut
Version: 10.0 (179114)
Build Info: ProEditor-179110400~1
App Item ID: 424389933
App External ID: 3491984
Code Type: X86-64 (Native)
Parent Process: launchd [151]
Date/Time: 2011-09-16 13:26:11.000 +0100
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.7.1 (11B26)
Report Version: 9
Interval Since Last Report: 331360 sec
Crashes Since Last Report: 8
Per-App Interval Since Last Report: 166698 sec
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report: 6
Anonymous UUID: 51989922-37B2-4B97-A5D7-254A098D646E
Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x000000011ff88090
VM Regions Near 0x11ff88090:
VM_ALLOCATE 000000011ff7d000-000000011ff7f000 [ 8K] rw-/rwx SM=PRV
-->
VM_ALLOCATE 000000011ff8b000-000000011ff8c000 [ 4K] rw-/rwx SM=PRV
Application Specific Information:
objc[456]: garbage collection is OFF
Thread 0 Crashed:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0 com.apple.QuartzCore 0x00007fff94d6b380 free_magazine + 41
1 com.apple.QuartzCore 0x00007fff94d6b464 collect_depot + 173
2 com.apple.QuartzCore 0x00007fff94d6b29e magazine_dealloc + 450
3 com.apple.QuartzCore 0x00007fff94d6ba19 x_mem_dealloc_chain + 80
4 com.apple.QuartzCore 0x00007fff94d9a107 CA::AttrList::free() + 119
5 com.apple.QuartzCore 0x00007fff94dae6c9 _ZL18CAAnimationDestroyP11CAAnimation + 56
6 com.apple.QuartzCore 0x00007fff94dae669 -[CAAnimation dealloc] + 20
7 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8a4e5800 CFRelease + 176
8 com.apple.QuartzCore 0x00007fff94dae609 CA::Layer::free_animation(CA::Layer::Animation*, bool) + 43
9 com.apple.QuartzCore 0x00007fff94dc93ab CA::Layer::run_animation_callbacks(void*) + 135
10 com.apple.QuartzCore 0x00007fff94dc92de CA::Layer::run_animation_callbacks_compat(double, void*) + 28
11 com.apple.QuartzCore 0x00007fff94daf1c6 _ZN2CAL14timer_callbackEP16__CFRunLoopTimerPv + 171
12 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8a535694 __CFRUNLOOP_IS_CALLING_OUT_TO_A_TIMER_CALLBACK_FUNCTION__ + 20
13 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8a5351e6 __CFRunLoopDoTimer + 534
14 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8a515ba1 __CFRunLoopRun + 1617
15 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x00007fff8a515216 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 230
16 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x00007fff8a0324ff RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 277
17 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x00007fff8a039c21 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 355
18 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x00007fff8a039aae BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 62
19 com.apple.AppKit 0x00007fff92d2c191 _DPSNextEvent + 659
20 com.apple.AppKit 0x00007fff92d2ba95 -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 135
21 com.apple.AppKit 0x00007fff92d283d6 -[NSApplication run] + 463
22 com.apple.prokit 0x00000001002f97c3 NSProApplicationMain + 387
23 com.apple.FinalCut 0x0000000100002138 start + 52
Thread 1:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.libdispatch-manager
0 libsystem_kernel.dylib 0x00007fff91b06e06 __select_nocancel + 10
1 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff92c7d36e _dispatch_mgr_invoke + 251
2 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff92c7c19e _dispatch_mgr_thread + 54
Thread 2:: Dispatch queue: com.apple.root.low-priority
0 libsystem_kernel.dylib 0x00007fff91b077e6 kevent + 10
1 com.apple.Flexo 0x000000010099acac __-[FFStorageManager _createKernelQueue]_block_invoke_1 + 28
2 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff92c7b90a _dispatch_call_block_and_release + 18
3 libdispatch.dylib 0x00007fff92c7c7e9 _dispatch_worker_thread2 + 255
4 libsystem_c.dylib 0x00007fff8da4b3da _pthread_wqthread + 316
5 libsystem_c.dylib 0x00007fff8da4cb85 start_wqthread + 13
Hi John Paul,
I can't comment on your reports (I don't understand them either), but, we spent about a day and a half editing on our MacPro this week. During that time, it locked up twice - both times audio stopped, though visual playback continued on the timeline, and we had to reboot FCP X (but not the machine). We then picked up from where we left off without data loss.
Some of the edit was fairly intensive - 3 connected story lines, with PIP effect used - it was a live presenter on screen, with a split screen of presenter/powerpoint slides, with effects on audio too.
Chris
PS if you want to chat it through, give me a call on the Hallmark number 0 1 2 0 2 - see website for rest (sorry, stops spam)
Hi Chris and John Paul, does it not seem that crashing is down to not quite enough ram and possibly a not quite sufficient O S ? This i7 iMac I mentioned is now in my possession and I've installed 8gb of ram. Next job is to get that FCPX but, being the coward that I am, I'm waiting on others to satisfy most possible considerations . . . !
Hi Chris and John Paul, does it not seem that crashing is down to not quite enough ram and possibly a not quite sufficient O S ? This i7 iMac I mentioned is now in my possession and I've installed 8gb of ram. Next job is to get that FCPX but, being the coward that I am, I'm waiting on others to satisfy most possible considerations . . . !
Hi Ron,
It runs better on my 2011 13 inch Macbook pro with 4GB or Ram than it does on my Mac Pro with 6GB of Ram. Both systems are running Lion. I think Chris said earlier that he thinks it might some sound issues causing the crash (or am I making it up ??) an looking at when it's rashing it defiantly seems to be audio tracks that cause the issue.
Audi seems to be the cause of a few bugs as I said earlier if I use a track bought from iTunes it has a clicking through the exported file. I need to change the iTunes file to MP3 to eradicate this. I just can't wait for the .1 fix and the future as I think there is a really impressive NLE here as long as Apple are listening to people
Hi Ron,It runs better on my 2011 13 inch Macbook pro with 4GB or Ram than it does on my Mac Pro with 6GB of Ram. Both systems are running Lion. I think Chris said earlier that he thinks it might some sound issues causing the crash (or am I making it up ??) an looking at when it's rashing it defiantly seems to be audio tracks that cause the issue.
Audi seems to be the cause of a few bugs as I said earlier if I use a track bought from iTunes it has a clicking through the exported file. I need to change the iTunes file to MP3 to eradicate this. I just can't wait for the .1 fix and the future as I think there is a really impressive NLE here as long as Apple are listening to people
That's really interesting. My 2006 MacPro has 6gb ram but I'm still on Leopard with it and using FCP6 with a number of people preferring the DVD stuff. Thanks for the info.
Right, more of an update.
The editing that we had been doing on a MacPro continued yesterday, and passed without incident - very stable indeed. However, I had misinformed you. That machine was a later MacPro Quad Core 2,66 and 8gb RAM, with an nvidia Geforce GT120 graphics card. So, we moved our next edit to Macpro 8-core with 6gb RAM and upgrade 1gb Nvida GTX 285.
That mac caused us no end of problems this morning. The edit was 2 layers of synchronised shots (ill-fated Red Arrows display at Bournemouth on the crash day). As before on the other machine, with completely different shots and style of editing, the crashes were signified by the timeline continuing to play, with audio stopping, yet picture continuing as normal. The programme did not actually quit or come up with any error message - it just did exactly as described.
So, our findings have been that on imac27 Quad Core i5 - very stable, no reported problems, MacPro Quad Core, generally stable. MacPro 8-core (2008) - troublesome. On this machine, we have reverted to FCP7 to continue the edit. This is not a very scientific test, and the results could well be flawed - but, it does show our personal experience to date.
And speaking of updates...
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/20/apple-releases-major-update-and-free-trial-for-final-cut-pro-x/
The XML is the 'wrong flavour" for FCP 7 imports.....so not of any interest to me yet as I need to be able to work on older FCP 7 projects and I can't see any need to change from my current workflow, although the new 30 day free trial is interesting.
Chris at least I can now download the trial and understand our phone conversations better. :D
Chris at least I can now download the trial and understand our phone conversations better. :D
I would still struggle with your accent though!
Give the download a try, you might be pleasantly surprised. You have to approach it with an open mind though.
I will be particularly interested to see/hear if bugs have been fixed. Very pleased to see 3 things - direct import of xdcam ex, customisable timecodes & ability to add effects to secondary storylines more simply. All should have been in place from day one though.
An hears mee puddin on mee posh voice fore yez!:D
will have to see if whats left of my mind can cope with a new piece of software, it tends to be in outside broadcast or painting mode most of the time these days!
still hanging in similar places although less crashing. might try improving my RAM as I'm sure Paul D says that it should have symmetrical pairs in a Mac Pro 2008 i.e. 2x 1GB and 2x 2GB is not as good as 4x 2GB or even 2x 2GB because of the way it accesses that. maybe I'm wrong but Im positive I've been told this
Tried to update this morning - error in App store..."this item is temporarily unavailable". Also, I was asked to purchase Motion again - it did not show up as an update at all. I went into purchase history, and it showed there, so I updated Motion from that screen. Still could not update FCP X though.
Tried to update this morning - error in App store..."this item is temporarily unavailable". Also, I was asked to purchase Motion again - it did not show up as an update at all. I went into purchase history, and it showed there, so I updated Motion from that screen. Still could not update FCP X though.
I had a similar message regarding FCP X. In view of the trial period, I'll have to have a look at that.
I had a similar message regarding FCP X. In view of the trial period, I'll have to have a look at that.
I got in touch with Apple Support about FCP X to ensure that its cost wasn't being charged to me after getting an email showing the amount! Confirmed that even if anyone has already got it they can download the trial version, which lasts for 30 days from the commencement of use, which I've now found is in fact 10.0.1 so, anyone interested . . . !
I had a similar message regarding FCP X. .
Apparently you have to trash the existing version of FCPX and download it again.
Apparently you have to trash the existing version of FCPX and download it again.
I didn't get FCP X, Stuart. That's why I checked to ensure it hadn't been charged to my bank account. The message says not in stock at the moment. I've downloaded the trial version but now I've come across a problem with the iMac,stuff shooting across the screen resulting in a changed display count, son I won't be looking intuit just yet!
The fact that the trial version is 10.0.1 seems to me to be a form of beta on Apple's part?
According to Larry Jordan (who discussed it with Apple), the numbering system for FCP X is designed to imitate that of their operating systems, eg OS 10.7.1 is OSX version 7.1, thus FCP 10.0.1 is FCP X version 0.1, which whilst implying it's a beta actually means it's a 'significant' update on version 0 ... D
According to Larry Jordan (who discussed it with Apple), the numbering system for FCP X is designed to imitate that of their operating systems, eg OS 10.7.1 is OSX version 7.1, thus FCP 10.0.1 is FCP X version 0.1, which whilst implying it's a beta actually means it's a 'significant' update on version 0 ... D
Thanks Dominic
I didn't get FCP X, Stuart. That's why I checked to ensure it hadn't been charged to my bank account.
Ah, sorry. I thought you had downloaded it already.
The message says not in stock at the moment. I've downloaded the trial version but now I've come across a problem with the iMac,stuff shooting across the screen resulting in a changed display count, son I won't be looking intuit just yet!
Interesting. I've just created a new partition so I can download the trial to see how that goes.
Coming back to this one . . . I find that some transitions just don't properly work at all and in the case of a complete scene break when I would sometimes really consider one should be used, I've had to remain with a straight cut. The problem seems to arise when a clip is not particularly long.
My impression is that the prog has some way to go before it's anything like FCP6. Although I'm using the trial version to gain experience,I presume it has all the attributes of FCPX outright.
Coming back to this one . . . I find that some transitions just don't properly work at all and in the case of a complete scene break when I would sometimes really consider one should be used, I've had to remain with a straight cut. The problem seems to arise when a clip is not particularly long.My impression is that the prog has some way to go before it's anything like FCP6. Although I'm using the trial version to gain experience,I presume it has all the attributes of FCPX outright.
Is there enough material at the end and beginning of the clips to cover the transitions?
Is there enough material at the end and beginning of the clips to cover the transitions?
Yes, and when editing the same clips in my MacPro with FCP6, no problem.
Here's something to try with FCP X. I tried it the other day with the newly released trial version.
1. Add a clip to the timeline.
2. Add a fadeout to the end of that clip.
3. Select another clip and add it to the timeline with a gap after the last clip.
4. Start shouting at the computer!
Here's something to try with FCP X. I tried it the other day with the newly released trial version.1. Add a clip to the timeline.
2. Add a fadeout to the end of that clip.
3. Select another clip and add it to the timeline with a gap after the last clip.
4. Start shouting at the computer!
The joys of the magnetic timeline. Easiest thing is once you've done your fade put the timeline head to the point you want your next clip to go and hit W. The clip will be put in with a gap. Or if allyou want is a fade out rather than use cross dissolve select the clip you want to fade hit ctrl V and you'll get the animation controls so just use the rubberbands to fade. Takes two seconds
Nope. If you hit W the clip is added where you want it to be, but FCP X decides to delete the fade on the clip before it! So you have to add the second clip in, then add the fade out to the previous clip otherwise FCP X keeps deleting it.
Nope. If you hit W the clip is added where you want it to be, but FCP X decides to delete the fade on the clip before it! So you have to add the second clip in, then add the fade out to the previous clip otherwise FCP X keeps deleting it.
Such an apparently simple(?) solution eludes me and I'm going to bed . . . Tomorrow back to FCP6 with HD. I've got a film to finish!
Oh well - following day - couldn't right click on a transition and change its duration in the timeline by selecting 'Change Duration.' Crashed each time and each time I sent the report to Apple. Nearly finished my HD film in the MacPro . . .
Any of you who are using FCPX able to supply any help on the problems I'm having, please? In the time I've been trying to finish the project I've been stuck with a jerkiness in the emerging part of transitions and had an inability to get a suitable length fade to black at the end of a clip using length duration but instead have had to alter the Pref Settings to do so. In the time I've been frigging around with FCPX I've completed the same HD film and burnt it to disk in my MacPro.
All very well feeding back to Apple but it doesn't help me with the process - certainly doesn't provide the incentive to buy. With twelve days trial period left and no satisfaction, I'm presently inclined to think that the prog is a duffer.
With twelve days trial period left and no satisfaction, I'm presently inclined to think that the prog is a duffer.
I suspect that you're right there, Ron! The application really doesn't seem at all to be aimed at anyone with a working knowledge of any of the 'traditional' NLEs. At best, it seems to be firmly a beta version just now. I'd wait until there are positive reviews outweighing the bad, which is bound to come at some stage in its development.
If an application hinders your reaching a goal, then it's just not worth it. D
I suspect that you're right there, Ron! The application really doesn't seem at all to be aimed at anyone with a working knowledge of any of the 'traditional' NLEs. At best, it seems to be firmly a beta version just now. I'd wait until there are positive reviews outweighing the bad, which is bound to come at some stage in its development.If an application hinders your reaching a goal, then it's just not worth it. D
Yep. It's been an exasperating time, trying to sort it. Some of the commands don't work some of the time and the screen has sometimes suddenly dodged about. I've 8gb RAM on board so it's not that. Gotta be bugginess. Glad I got the trial version. I'm wondering if it's anything to do with Lion because my daughter has FCPX with Snow Leopard and she's not complaining - well, not so far!
Typical!!!
We have 42 suites running Final Cut Studio 3. I need to purchase 2 more iMacs for a new learning suite but cannot install FCS 3 as it is no longer available. I'm not going to buy FCP X because that would mean working across versions - which as far as i'm aware is not possible.
I'm NOT going to purchase FCP X for the other 42 suites either. That's just silly.
I'm under pressure from teaching staff to get Adobe Premiere. But again I'll be creating suites that aren't the same as our other suites which means more help files and support issues. Although Premiere and FCP 7 work better together via XML.
Then we have the added problem that if (when) we migrate to Premiere IT Services will see it as a fantastic opportunity to move across to PC's. After all Premiere runs just as well on a PC. For the price of 10 Mac we can buy 30 PC's.
"Apple have really shot themselves in the foot" - My local Apple Store sales reps words not mine.
Volume licences are still available for FCP7 (FCS3) but you need to phone. Try here for info: http://www.apple.com/uk/mac/volume-licensing/
It's only a number you need, you already have the disks, and Apple are still supposedly supporting volume licences.
Hi Fox
Funny you should mention that. I called Apple this morning and spoke to educational volume licensing. They say that they are no longer selling FCS 3. I said that I had the DVDs just needed the serial numbers/licenses. But still no go. They are going to be getting back to me.
Hi FoxFunny you should mention that. I called Apple this morning and spoke to educational volume licensing. They say that they are no longer selling FCS 3. I said that I had the DVDs just needed the serial numbers/licenses. But still no go. They are going to be getting back to me.
What happened here, Tilski?
Hi Ron and all
Thanks for reminding me to update. Basically, a no go unless I was willing to purchase surplus stock at the full retail price from one of their UK store that still had FCS 3 in stock.
I handed all my doing to the head of IT Services who instant announced, "Rubbish!!! We're volume licensed so we're covered." He made a call to his contacts and all was sorted. Funny as I spend a lot of time complaining about how useless IT Services are but they really came through this time. Still to see this materialise though as the order hasn't yet been signed off. I'll re-post when the new iMacs are delivered.
In contrast to all this though we have booked a session with our local Apple Store to get an introduction into FCP X. We're entering it completely open minded with the hope that we'll then be able to make the decision whether to stick with Apple or move over to Premiere - Avid.
Will keep you posted.