FCPX now available

That is an amazing price and £29.99 each for compressor and motion. Color and soundtrack now incorporated into FCP

Obviously Snow Leopard compatible, then? (i.e. NOT Lion-only.)

yeah but probably not leopard as I'm sure it needs to be a 64 bit OS

Hi
For UK pricing - £179.99:
http://www.apple.com/uk/finalcutpro/
Press release:
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/06/21fcp.html

Do we know anything yet about DVD authoring? Or am I to assume that DVDStudioPro is EOL?

Hi
If the unsubstantiated rumour that unsold FCS 3 (FCP 7 etc) boxes are being recalled from the retail channel is correct, then that seems to be the end of it. Time will tell...

For those that don't get Larry Jordan's email or blog notes there's a good initial write up here:

http://www.larryjordan.biz/goodies/blog.html

NO MULTICAM SUPPORT :(
NO IMPORT OF v7 PROJECTS :(
NO TAPE LAYBACK :(
and first indication is NO XML support

and I've not got to the end of his email yet!

Yep, it's iMoviePro for Youtubers.......

I think Compressor takes that job now. from the App store\\\

Industry-Standard Encoding Support
• Use one-step settings for Apple devices and websites such as Vimeo, YouTube, and Facebook.
• Work with a choice of themed menus to encode and burn a DVD or Blu-ray disc.
• Add chapter markers for discs or podcasts distributed on iPad, iPhone, iPod, or Apple TV.
• Encode to a broad range of industry-standard formats, such as MPEG-2, H.264, and ProRes.
• Generate files for HTTP live streaming in a single step.
• Import Targa, DPX, TIFF, PSD, or PNG image sequences and encode them to any setting.
• Tap into advanced encoding features for adding closed captioning, metadata, and more.

Blu Ray interests me

The crucial thing at the moment is that you can run FCP7 alongside FCP X, so it's safe to train on it without jeopardising your existing workflow.

I'm trying to find out if Motion 5 can run alongside M4 too, but not having much luck there.

D

Hi
Gary Adcock (a beta tester apparently) implies that additional functionality will come with 10.7 Lion.
That might allow more access to FCP X's media/metadata database, import/export-wise.

In the meantime there's this:
http://automaticduck.com/products/pefcp/

Does anyone know if it will still capture from tape as the rumour was that it didn't.

Hmm - some of his information seems to contradict other reports. He says that Soundtrack and Color haven't made it into this release but others are saying they have. This is confusing.

I think it's a bit more than that.

Larry Jordan's blog says this:

"While FCP X can ingest from a Firewire-attached deck, its output options to tape are limited to live streaming."

Not sure if that's right or not. I also don't know what it means by output options to tape being limited to streaming. As opposed to what? I haven't outputted to tape for many years anyway so I don't really know what options there are to do that.

Another issue appears to be an autosave that you can't turn off. Not good for multiple project versions.

Mmm, just read Larry Jordan's blog. Sounds like there's some good stuff in there, especially the 64 bit support. I use Compressor a lot and some of our encoding takes an age so hopefully it will all be sped up with FCPX and the new version of Compressor.

What concerns me though is the lack of tape support. It sounds like there is limited Firewire capture support (which is mainly all we use) but it seems like a big mistake to abandon all other tape support as there are so many people still using tape.

We'll end up getting it at some point as the limitations with the old version of FCP will become too much of a headache eventually. At least we'll be able to run FCP7 and FCPX side by side.

Surely you can just 'Save As' a new version therefore keeping your old version? That's what I used to do with Pinnacle Liquid which had the same feature

Creative Cow now has an FCPX forum, it's very interesting to read the comments there from the early downloaders.......;)

The first bugs have already been posted ;)

Hi
Here's Apple's list of supported graphics cards:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4664

FCP has never really supported capture from tape apart from FW - a separate vendor's capture card with drivers has always been required.

Edit to Tape is different to streaming to tape in that deck control and precision timecode alignment are necessary. No version of FCP since v3 has been able to do this without a third-party device.

AJA have just announced FCP X support in beta.

What's a bug and what's a 'feature' lies in the eye of the beholder ;)
People haven't understood how AV Foundation differs from QuickTime - which is why some media imports can be destructive...

Lion will advance many aspects of FCP X's functionality I expect.

you can't control decks other than FW and then it's not based on timecode control, but only as a stream, as in 'capture now' in legacy FCP.

Totally agree Paul, but reading both the CC and Apple FCPX forums at this time there really are no good words being said!

I'll hold of till at least Lion and maybe even longer, my setup works for me now the way I want it and X is not going to give me any added functionality over what I want and do, other than a speed increase (although my system is not slow now!).

It's good both 7 & X can be run together although some posts are now saying X wiped 7...:eek:

I wonder who on DVDoc is going to jump first?

If that's true I think I'll wait a while. I have some big projects here in FCP7 that might not be finished until the end of the year.

https://discussions.apple.com/message/15454571#15454571

Read the Apple FCPX threads to get a feel as to if you want / should buy:

https://discussions.apple.com/community/professional_applications/final_cut_pro_x

Hi
Apple's documentation for all three new apps:
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4681

Installing FCP X onto an FCP 7 system only overwrites the dock icon, not the old version of FCP 7.

This is one of the big new features of Lion. It autosaves everything automatically but you have access to all previous versions

http://www.apple.com/macosx/whats-new/

scroll down to auto save and versions.

A lot of complaints are steming from guys who want it to be like the old version with new add-ons. Apple seem to have taken a punt on what they believe is the the future of editing. It's a ballsy move and time will tell but we are dealing with guys who are entrenched in a workflow and don't like athe fact a lot of what they know has been taken away. Apple have done this time and time again for the past ten years "what no Floppy Drive" "no serial ports?" "no USB port on the iPad?" "no Flash" and do you know what they have largely been proved right, some of the continual problems that windows has faced in the past has been through trying to keep past users happy as well as new and they've bloated it as a result. It is an entirely new code and people are complaining about not being able to open FCP 7 projects? GET A GRIP PEOPLE it is an entirely new way of working for right or for wrong how would you open a FCP 7 project in it with all the Bins and sequences that aren't supported.

It'll take time for people to discover the new workflow and then judgements can be made, the only real problem I se so far is the lack of some exporting options but you might find that these are in compressor now which is much better integrated

That's an OK statement for new projects, but I have several archived projects that just get new bits added, old bits taken out, new updated graphics etc, I also have 2 ongoing projects with over 12 months of work so far, It would have been good to be able to bring those into X. FCP7 will die at some stage, either with an OS update or with a hardware update - At least with FCP 7 any BetaSP or U-Matic stuff (yes, I still get some to work from!) will play into my Blackmagic card with FCP7.

Yes, if I bought FCPX any new projects could be made with it but I don't see the point of just that at the moment - maybe by about version 2 point something.

No doubt this software is the start of a new phase for the next 5 years to add new things and move on to FCP11 etc.
I think this is aimed for the professional market and boy it has been long time coming. For the hobbies t person i say stick with FCP7 at present and let the big boys play around.
I think we are in a new era of fast editing with a few gremlins.

Apple have gone stark raving mad. It looks like they are now expecting people to install Snow Leopard before Lion if they ever want to do an install from scratch. Ridiculous.

With FCP X they have missed out a whole load of stuff. Multicam editing for one thing. Not being able to import old FCP projects is simply idiotic.

I do not know how people can justify the limitations of FCP X by saying that its the first version of a new rewrite. When Adobe totally revamped Premiere they got it pretty much spot on from the start. Now it is fantastic (and I hate saying that about an Adobe product).

I'm sure you meant to say that statement as the reverse.

Hi
I think only to access the app store to buy it. Once you've downloaded the installer you can do as you like (but it won't run on Leopard).

A full write up of FCPX here [by Steve Martin from Ripple, some of the grabs look familiar ;) ]

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_x_first_look_martin.html

NO WAY TO MONITOR EXTERNALLY!!!! How on Earth is one supposed to grade etc without this fundamental facility?

I really think I may be moving to Premiere to access decent rendering time etc ...

Going by a few reports I've seen today, pretty much all these complaints will shortly be addressed in an update. It seems that the rebuild was such a mammoth job that they wanted to get it out so people could use it and to be fair the majority of users will be fine as they won't have need for some of the broadcast features that are missing.

As I said earlier, Apple have played thei hand and they have said what they think is the future. Time will tell.

As some have already said I think Apple will address the 'missing' elements that the pro users need at some point. Apple have always been innovators, moving the market forward (ditching the floppy etc). But, and this is a big but, they would be very foolish to turn their back on a huge customer base of pro users by killing off a pro software suite like FCS and releasing a dumbed down version. It wasn't that long ago that pro users were the mainstay Apple users buying Apple Macs for graphics and video work. Software must advance and from what I've read FCPX is such an advancement. I'm intrigued to see how the new timeline design works and I'm eager to be able to use our hardware to the full for background rendering and encoding which FCP7 doesn't do. We will be purchasing FCPX but not just yet as I'm sure there are bugs and as a business we need to make sure it fits into our workflow fully and improves it. Some people aren't going to like it the way that some people didn't like single track editing when that the became the norm. But as with most things in life we have to accept the and adapt to the new to compete and survive.

One of the key things for me is the fact that FCPX and FCP7 can both be run on the same system thus helping the transition.

I agree with Simon, I think you've got that the wrong way round. I was up early this morning and read most of the posts on both Creative Cow and Apple FCPX, at a guess for every 100 posts there's only 1 positive comment. I do like Phillip Johnston's take, he's given Apple a free advert ;)

FCPX will appeal to the wanna be's, the weekend film makers, media students who want to look as if they know how to edit and any those who currently use iMovie - it has the 'pro label, it's affordable and makes editing appear easy with export options for Youtube!

For FCP7 users it's going to be a while before many accept this 'new way' of working, I don't see many jobs on Mandy asking for FCPX editors for a while. In the meantime I'll bet Adobe are rubbing their hands with glee to all the negative stuff for FCPX on the web - and it's not been out for 24 hours yet.

I got back late last night from an away job, thinking how interesting it would be to see the new FCX

Wow - this is NOT for the PRO market at all is it?

No external monitor support, no "Save As", and, worst of all for me, no easy way to import XDCAM EX footage. That is just things I have discovered in about 5 minutes of reading. Wait..there is more...if you delete an event (clip) in your current project...YOU DELETE THE ORIGINAL. Is that dumb or what?

Surely, in the product line at the moment, this is much nearer to Final Cut XPress than Final Cut Pro? I cannot see the established market of broadcasters, film-makers and high-end corporate users being pleased with any of this. A rapid revision of this will be needed very quickly indeed (and, to be fair, it may well come), but I think the marketing people have created an unnecessary backlash that may well have a serious effect on Pro sales. On the other hand, their may be a HUGE jump in "pro-sumer" sales - and Apple may well have identified that as its future target market.

An application that is cheap enough for mass appeal may bring in more overall revenue than a higher-end product that is costly to develop for a relatively much smaller market. It may well be designed for future integration on Ipad and iphone - again leading to reduced production and development overhead, whilst increasing consumer sales. Historically, the Apple machine has rolled on through innovation, and doesn't give a damn about upsetting its established clients along the way (think about no Flash support for Ipad, for example).

I think if improvement for the professional market doesn't come quickly, there will be a massive surge away from this product to Avid and/or Adobe. Right now, they must be thinking it is party time at Avid!

I'm not going to write it off because of some complaints on a few forums. If you read the Apple support forums, they are full of people complaining about all sorts of things, the vast majority of which are not representative of other people's experiences. If you were influenced by everything you read on the internet, nobody would buy anything!

As they say - a little knowledge is a dangerous thing so to to be so wholly dismissive without having any practical experience of the product is a little blinkered, in my opinion.

For me, having watched the videos of new features, there seems to be a lot which would tempt me and the price would certainly encourage me to get it at some point and try it out so that I could form a proper opinion of it.

But really, a view of the software based on no use or one day's use isn't a particularly well-informed view. These are the people who always seem to shout the loudest, however.

Plus, has anyone on this forum actually tried it yet?

I'd like to try it, but can't. For one thing there is no trial available (and I'm not going to spend £179 quid just to find out that I'm not going to use it), and second my ancient Mac Pro 1,1 with an X1900 graphics card won't run it.

Fair points, but, if it does not do what you need it to do, nor things that you use everyday - you don't need to try it! You CANNOT migrate your existing FCP projects - I don't need to try it to understand that. You CANNOT view on an external monitor....YOU CANNOT cleanly import XDCAM, you CANNOT lay back to tape using timecode, and you cannot integrate SDI into your workflow. At present, though any/all of that may change. Bearing in mind the name of the product, and its existing user base, that is just some of the reasons why there is so much displeasure. Final Cut Studio is pitched as a major competitor against Avid in the broadcast market. Final Cut X is not a competitor against Avid in the broadcast market whatsoever in its current guise, and, you cannot argue that point.

Those things may or may not be important to you, but, you are quite wrong to criticise truly professional people for being annoyed at the lack of those features. Many users have invested in expensive Mac pros that are crippled by the existing FCP inability to use their full power. I would say that every such user would have expected/hoped/wanted to have retained all the existing functionality, and added this further functionality as a bare minimum.

It appears that you cannot try it without buying it...so, if you "try it out" you have achieved Apple's objective, even if you don't like it!

On the positive side it is VERY cheap, and, if you followed my advice re itunes vouchers in a previous thread, will cost only £120 inc VAT. So, (now that I have the vouchers!) I will try it and see what it does. There could easily be some good and rapid improvements - but, wouldn't be a shame if that was via a chargeable upgrade!

Not tried it, don't intend to spend £179 plus £30 for Motion and £30 for Compressor, for something that can't do (at the moment) what I can do now. I was ready to buy first thing yesterday but waited to see the first reviews, I'm glad I did.

Stuart, most people buy software either on a trial (try and buy) basis or on the recommendation from other users and forum / user reviews if Try & Buy is not available. There are many downloaders of FCPX in the USA who've posted reviews, even some of the more well known users on Cow who have downloaded it and, who's opinions are trusted by many people are saying hold off for now. As an FCP user since v2.0.1, I'd be interested, along with many here, in your views if you do download it.

As a side note, I was one of the first Media 100 users, I bought into it when there were less than 10 systems in the UK, I stayed with it till v6/v7 when Data Translation seemed to lose the plot and radically re-design the workflow and interface - they lasted for just a very short time before people started to defect to a new system that was being highly acclaimed at the time with very favourable reviews.......Final Cut Pro.

I think I will be sticking with FCP7 for the time being as my systems all work and suit my P2 workflow, no doubt this is a version of FCP to address the DSLR and i-pad/you tube brigade so it will sell by the shedload and make apple a lot of money.

Sadly in the pro industry it will no doubt flood the freelance market with even more people who call themselves an editor just because they own or can operate a piece of software, but time will tell and we shall see.

Sadly I think you may be right Gary, as it did when camcorders became 'affordable'. There are 'professionals' working in my area with sub £500 HD cameras; is there any wonder they can undercut us? Their 'work' may be pants, but a potential client often doesn't know until they've spent their budget. :(

I agree with what a lot of the other pros like Foxvideo, Hallmark and SimonW say above, so won't repeat any of those arguments, but I'm dismayed they have made this release with lots of the useful (even essential) features we have come to expect. It seems to be a professionally aimed package, but half finished. I would have preferred all the 'missed' features but at TWICE the price of FCS.

"If you think hiring a professional is expensive, wait until you've hired an amateur!" Red Adair ...

I've just been on the apple site to look at the price of FCS2 for someone and it's gone.

Yup I heard it's been withdrawn from sale, a bad move if what we are hearing is true about the huge limitations on the new i-movie pro!:D

Well, this just about does it in for me, half way through the intro the trainer tells anyone who's used FCP7 to basically forget everything you've learnt about editing in FCP in the past and learn everything from scratch.

LINK to video on MacProVideo.com

Imagine if M$oft dropped Powerpoint from sale, told everyone using it to forget how it worked previously, learn a totally new version and that old PP presentations wouldn't open in the new version until it had been developed further.....:confused:

There's 3 'free' video tutorials on that page - well worth watching all of them.

Shall I also forget how to use my phone, drive my car, and hold cutlery while I am in the mood too....??? This programme really is quite a bizarre and radical step. I watched the tutorial and got bored very quickly - 2 mins seemed like 20. Is that just me?

Ah but maybe us so called pro's are missing the marketing plan as all you need these days is a noo mediah degree, a canon 5D and this to make full HD movies, no doubt future updates will include an auto edit and auto dub whilst uploading to you tube via an auto live streaming portal, all in glorious 3D 5.1 surround!:D

yup that seems to be the deal. The quote that has been over used these past few months regarding FCP X is the Henry Ford one 'if I asked my customers what they wanted they would say a faster horse' Well if FCP users had been asked what they wanted they would have said 64bit and more native support for various codecs.

Apple believe they have just given the horse loving editing cowboys the motor car and it could be arrogance or it could be a genuine belief that they have wrote the future of NLEs but the truth is, nobody who bought FCP X yesterday has had anywhere near enough time to decide if this new workflow will be for them. There was one Joker on Twitter who was boasting that he asked for a refund after 20 minutes, 20minutes??? If I based my adoption of new experiances on those timescales I would never have left Nappies

There is No doubt that it is not ready for 'broadcast' use and for many other pros due to the missing features but look at this way, the change in workflow is so drastic that no-one who makes their income from FCP could possibly jump right in at the moment anyway even if it had all the necessary features and I think that is one of the reasons that it doesn't overwrite FCP 7.

This fact combined with the low price means that proffesionals should be downloading this to use almost as a hobby, an App to be used in your spare time so you can learn the workflow without jeopardising your business. then when the updates that will come with the desired features you will be ready to move to FCP X full time if you wish or you will be ready to jump to another platform

This workflow may not be the way forward but I think it will take a few months before a real picture and non knee jerk opinions can be formed.

You are making a very big assumption (or two) there:

1. No-one from Apple has confirmed (or denied) that these features WILL be added
2/ Professional have spare time (and would want to spend it in an edit suite!!!!!):)

very true, spare time? when your up till 2 in the morning editing:-)

While no-one from Apple has officially said this a lot of the editors that have had inside info have said that Apple have told them these features are coming including backwards compatibility I think Phil Hodgetts was doing an online chat last night and said some of this.
The rumors Ive read also suggest that these updates will come relatively fast.

I think with something as new and radical as this it will take at least a year to really understand it, then I think it would be fair to let rip or indeed praise it

Hi
Since a lot of the missing functionality is dependent on low-level OS X components - like CoreData for the XML functionality and enhanced 'media management, and AV Foundation for external video I/O etc, I think we are probably waiting until OS X 10.7.6 or so ;)

The current Snow Leopard version of FCP X has a limited set of AV Foundation code included, but I expect Lion will enhance this extensively - although probably not at first.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4722

From Apple Support:

"It is strongly recommended that you install Final Cut Pro X, Motion 5, and Compressor 4 on a startup disk that does not have Final Cut Studio (2009) already installed."

One point I can't understand, if FCP7 (FCS3) is discontinued and I can't find it in the Apple store anymore, that means DVDSP is no more. How are FCPX users going to produce DVD's other than the Apple "stock" templates supplied?

If they have installed X on a separate partition to 7 as recommended, they are going to have to re-boot to another partition to use DVDSP if they have it - doesn't make sense to me, are Apple now trying to kill off the DVD?

Wouldn't surprise me. I think that their refusal to adopt Blu-ray combined with their investment in things like AppleTV indicate their opinion that disc based media has no future.

Hi
Take it as an 'early warning' to buy any Apple hardware that you need (if you require an inbuilt optical drive) before the first hardware revision after Lion ships ;)

Which shows that Apple is forgetting what differentiates Pro software. Pro software needs to be able to deliver what the client wants, not what Apple says the client should want!

Are they also now saying that dedicated colourists and sound mixers are also now obsolete jobs? Seems so since you can't even organise your audio tracks in FCPX to hand off to the third party. Oh, and how fantastic is it that a client can now see all of your media files, including those of their rivals in your FCPX events.

This is going to go down in history as one of the most disastrous new software releases in a very long time. If Apple don't intend to support and deliver for the needs of pros any more then they should just come clean about it.

Hi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product ;)

This made me smile ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRzLP0FJ82I&feature=player_embedded

Very funny.

It really does show how much of a boob Apple have made when FCPX is getting publicity like this.

The comment further down is rather strong . . .

"With Apple's "re-imagining" of Final Cut Pro, they've now GOTTEN RID OF: Autosave Vault, scratch disk location options, no manual project saving, XML import/export, EDL, OMF, assignable audio/video tracks, customizable workspaces, customizable bin columns, batch capture from tape, legacy project support, Photoshop layer support, manual Reconnect Media ability, no true broadcast video output monitoring, and now you can only have one timeline per project. Because Apple says so."

How much of that is right I wonder?

All of it.

The more I read the worse it gets.

Come back Premiere, all is forgiven.

I think it is a cunning plan to get all the wannabee and noo media muppets to buy into this version as they can then call themselves editors rather than production secretaries, that will allow them to sit at their desks and play at making TV such as the Katie Price show etc and leave put the proper programme making back into the domain of us pro's who have FCP7.

Well I can always dream that is the plan!:D

Having given this all some thought, one scenario that comes to mind is that Apple is actively trying to remove itself entirely from the 'Pro' market - for EVERYTHING.

I think this could well be the beginning of the end for MacPros and I suspect that Logic will have a similar re-write soon too. Then there will be no critical software available that requires a hardcore Mac for optimisation (as it stands, the only benefit a MacPro provides for FCPX is multicore threading, which will likely become more significant in new iMacs - even the graphics cards in iMacs will soon be up to 5780 type spec).

With Thunderbolt and associated hardware to feed it, any new iMac will beat the file i/o speed of an eSATA RAID equipped MacPro too. Apple have made it abundantly clear that they no longer value the existing FCP market, so they are looking to the iMac market. No doubt iMac will develop into iPad on steroids soon enough too, uniting all Apple devices with iOS X and everything touch screen and 'gestures' lead.

I think 5 years is a conservative estimate for this scenario and more likely the final MacPros will be sold within the next 3 years and then even Premiere will be discontinued on Mac (after a few bumper years).

Is there any software other than FCP and Logic that is Mac only that is truly used by professional creatives any more? Adobe & Autodesk are stronger in Windows, as is Avid. Other than very niche medical / academic software what is there?

I expect my current computer to serve me, with its current software, for about 5 years (bought last October), then I expect to move to Windows X.

Thoughts?

Dominic

I think you may be right Dominic and in the new age of video production that may be round the corner content production could go more into the public domain.

So getting the mass market up to speed with an easy to use but powerful package for the you tube generation may be all that is needed in the future to allow mass market production on the i-pad and i-mac.

Well, there is (believe it or not) Media 100 in it's new reincarnation. ;)
I took a look yesterday, the 53 minute webinar demo is a joke - the demo went haywire 5 mins into the presentation with the presenter apologising and after 6 mins I turned it off!

I think I'm beginning to agree with Dominic's points, SJ mentioned he'd like to get rid of "the box" when he presented iCloud and I thought then 'what about MacPro's'. I was still tempted (up until this morning) to go for FCPX just to see what it was all about but reading all the comments on the App Store page I really thought it's not worth spending the money for the sort of work I do. I'm not losing anything by staying with 7 and a MacPro for the next couple of years so I'll stay where I am and just watch from the sidelines......

Hi
There's nothing in FCP X that inherently excludes forward-looking (= tapeless) high end editing and post-production workflows. Its just not implemented in this pre-Lion version.

Analysis of the binary code indicates there is programming code built in for media I/O and XML handling.
Project import from previous versions is most probably never going to work well due to conceptual differences in the timeline structure:
Here's a quote from an email from Randy Ubilos (FCP X creator):
"FCP7 projects do not have enough information in them to properly translate to FCPX (in FCP7 all of the clip connections live in the editor's head, not in the timeline).
Final Cut Pro X 1.0 is the beginning of a road, not the end."

So I don't think the question as to what will happen to Mac high-end hardware can be extrapolated from this software release.

However Thunderbolt and/or fibre Light Peak is a game changer, with PCI-e slots going to become an optional requirement for a workstation.
Apple should release a new Mac Pro (with TB) as soon as Intel supply them with the next generation of Sandy Bridge workstation CPUs - sometime later this year.
Here's the latest rumour ;)
http://9to5mac.com/2011/06/23/apple-gearing-up-to-launch-upgraded-mac-pro-with-16-core-processor/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+9To5Mac-MacAllDay+%289+to+5+Mac+-+Apple+Intelligence%29

A lot of interesting stuff here. I think FCPX does represent a long overdue paradigm shift but and it's a big but, it is in effect version 0.9 of a completely new application. Remember what Premiere was like before V5.1? And much the same can be said for Pro Tools in its early (Atari) incarnations. There are loads of other examples.
There are a couple of killer golden nuggets (to mix my metaphores) in FCPX but it needs all the infrastructure adding to make it into a 'killer app'. It exists more in potentia than in reality just now. Notwithstanding it's the biggest incentive I've seen in ages to buy another Mac. But then Windows 8 is just around the corner and how long will it be before the other major players nick the best features out of FCPX?
I want that magnetic timeline though just as soon as it works without losing sync.

In the 3 days sice fcpx was released that is about the most sense anyone has spoken.

Couldn't agree more! :)

This makes interesting reading too.

Hi
From that link:
The information here comes from consultation with Final Cut Pro X's product managers at Apple. = a press release from Apple, subject to the Apple RDF ;)

So Paul as a mac guru, does that mean you are experiencing some bad karma about the latest release?

...especially the comments posted after the review.

Thanks for the link Stuart. Apples RDF notwithstanding it makes interesting reading and vindicates my initial thoughts.

Also, people have to realise there is no such thing as a free lunch, to borrow a US cliche. The headline price may have dropped dramatically but by the time you've added on the bits professional workflows require it will be back to the old price or more. Still a bargain if it delivers the goods and cheaper than Avid or Adobe.

I have some faith that Apple will follow through with the development. Despite the fact I can probably blag a review download I'd actually be quite happy to pay for it. FCPX really could represent the future and an insight into that is priceless even if it takes a while for others to follow suit.

Hi
Personally? No, not really. :cool:
As the comments after David Pogue's 'press release' show, the 54% of broadcast editing/post professionals worldwide who use Final Cut are in uproar since FCP 7 was summarily discontinued with no notice whatsoever. :(
For a bankrupt company that is commonplace, but for a company with $65 billion cash in the bank that is unprecedented.

Is that good customer relations?

I've been waiting for the replacement to the antiquated QuickTime for a long time.
The convoluted way in which it has arrived - as the AV Foundation code that has enabled the media-playing success of the iPhone and then the iPad is not at all what I initially was expecting. But it is a stroke of genius :)

Rob is right that FCP X is a 0.9 beta release. As he says the underlying concept is very promising. So why did Apple release it now in its unfinished state - just before the introduction of Lion?
Someone commented that they are killing FCP 7/FCS 3 as quickly as they can because Apple knows its roadmap for OS X 10.7>10.8 (iOS 5>OS 10.8) is going to break FCS 3 at some time in the not-too-distant future, and they want it out of the way... :(

I do feel this is a really unusual thing for Apple to do. While I appreciate that rewriting software is an enormous task, to wantonly discard features that appeal to the professional high-end seems a terrible risk, because part of the allure of FCP has been it's appeal to broadcasters. It seems that Apple has decided that the high-end market can look after itself and if they migrate to Avid or Premiere so be it.

For me looking at my workflow, I don't need many of those features such as printing to tape etc but I would like to migrate my projects to this and use fully the power under the bonnet of the computer. I really don't want to be running a legacy programme and frankly I don't want to have to work with two different editing styles.

So I was initially going to be an early adopter of this software because I have a project that I am working on that desperately needs more computer oomph, but now I will have to wait, to see what toys really have been thrown from the pram and to see what the next release of OSX and FCPX has to offer.

Having taken a passing interest in FCPX I was expecting great things from Apple with this release. If I remember correctly they (Apple) promised to blow people away.

If nothing else I hoped that it would help to keep Adobe on their toes for CS6 - not least in terms of pricing!

Shame all 'round really.

It had to happen... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVV9wEQZmGE&feature=player_embedded

I must be the only person in the world who doesn't find these Hitler things remotely funny.

They did and they have, but not necessarily for the reasons they intended! ;)

Hi
Here are two lengthy posts analysing Apple's strategic decision making at this time:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?253563-What-Apple-s-approach-towards-Final-Cut-and-its-legacy-users-means-for-its-future.&p=2371115&viewfull=1#post2371115

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/5792

Has a ring of truth.
I just hope the opposition hurries up copying the good bits. (And for me that means the collision detection in the timeline and automatic creation of new tracks when needed. Also, for those NLEs that don't already have it, the ability to combine elements into groups which can be treated as a single object.) I can live without the rest of the shiney bits so long as I can round trip to AE and a proper audio application.

This thread could fill up pretty fast. I have been studding the reviews on this software. What is good and what is bad. Looked at several written posting from people who make a living from editing and using FCP7 at present.
The findings from most professionals it is a glorious "iMOVIE PRO".
The biggest fault is the interacting with clients and being to work with other editors,and many other negative issues.
I have very limited understand when talking Pro res and many other elements. But to me FCPX looks fine and the tutorials are well presented.

that has quickly become as tedious and moronic as Micro$oft! :)

Sorry. But there is so much talk about this software and upgrading to FCP7 last year. It is only fair that points are aired from people who do not have all the technical knowledge, but use a software like driving a car but not looking under the bonnet.
Most of you understand what is missing and what is good with FCPX.
But the other majority have to read to gain knowledge and think if it is worth the move up.
But by reading and learning the input of this forum. The answer is hold fire.
From my point of view.

That seems a sensible conclusion at the moment. I may upgrade later in the summer but I may hold off until the "missing" features reappear. I am tempted by a lot of the new features, though and don't think I would really be affected much by the ones which aren't there just now.

not sure about the term "upgrade" in this context.

Paul :-)

It may be worth restating this:

FCPX is NOT an upgrade.
It is not even available as an upgrade for folks with FCP Studio 3 or FCP in earlier versions.
It IS a new product.
It may well give more than a nod to the highly successful iMovie.

Therefore, it needs to be treated in this context.
In the weeks and months to come it should become clearer whether this is a tool for professionals or not. I would counsel reserving judgement until it is a lot clearer where it's going.
Meanwhile, continue using whatever it is you've been (fairly) happy with up to now.
If you can afford it, dip a toe in the water to get a better insight into what all the fuss is about. But, please do this in the context of a NEW product, not an upgrade.
Apple marketing on this has been shocking for all the wrong reasons. Let's see if they can dig themselves out of the mire.

I think Paul's recent link is right on the money.

http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/335/5792

The question for us a s a forum is how to move forward - if you are currently working as a pro in a workflow that is too reliant on the rest of the pro media world then FCPX really isn't an option.

So there seem to be three options.

a/ Stay with FCP7 which is a mature product and has been doing things pretty well for quite some time (personally I only made the move to FCP fairly recently and although I can see its good it is very annoying when you come from Adobe)

b/ Move to Adobe - there is not much to separate FCP 7 and CS5.5 Premiere has become a very mature product too and the link up with AfterEffects is fabulous and really AE has no strong competitor so the Adobe workflow will just get better and better.

c/ Move to Avid (I took a punt on the amazing offer Avid were running prior to the FCPX release If you owned FCP (any version) you could buy Media Composer for less than $1000 (Sub £700). Seamed like a crazy offer because it was cheaper to buy FCP7 just to qualify for the offer than to buy Media Composer at the full value $2,050. Did Avid know what was about to happen? The offer expired on the 17th June.

Both adobe and avid will work with pro-res so I think one or the other of these two options is probably the best way forward for most of us.

In a way its a bit like full circle; FCP was born out of Apple buying practically all the brain power behind Premiere leaving it in limbo at 4.2. Perhaps the old FCP team should try and get their old jobs back!