First Submission

17 replies [Last post]
JamboJoe
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Joined: Aug 14 2008

Hi, like many others I also have finally plucked up the courage to submit a couple of highlights clips for feedback. We have been going for about 4 years now slowly gaining experience by filming about half a dozen weddings each year. All of our clients have been more than delighted but I'm looking for hints and tips from the many expert eyes on this forum. Any constructive help would be most appreciated. By the way, at the end of the first clip, the bride made me turn off our lights for the dancing hence the darker than normal picture.

http://www.videoexcel.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/lamb4web.wmv

http://www.videoexcel.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pryde4web.wmv

Thanks

Joey

Flame1
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Joined: Apr 21 2007

Hi Jambojoe,

Hope you don't mind me giving my opinion.

The first clip: Not sure whether the Bride did you any favours! and were some of the shots intentional where it almost looked like they were arguing?

I was confused with the shot of Groom arriving followed by a walking shot! did not sit right.
There were a few more like this......
Some of the cutting was too soon.

The shots were steady which is good, BUT....it really reminded me of everything I used to hate about wedding Videos!

Set formula. Following a set pattern, 80's music, made me feel I was watching a VHS tape of old. No live sound, much talking scenes....where's the live sound?

I did not watch the second clip, sorry.

Welcome to DV doctor. Please don't take offense at any of this. It is just my observation. I am sure others will give theirs.

Cheers:)

Flame.

JamboJoe
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Joined: Aug 14 2008

Hi Flame, thanks for your feedback. I see what you mean about the couple perhaps arguing but actually they were just getting blown about by a pretty strong wind. It is more obvious in the full film where there is live sound. The music was at the couples request.
Good point about the Groom walking shot.

Thanks

Joey

David L Lewis
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Joined: Jan 11 2006

John you make a very good point "wheres the Live sound". This is an area I struggle with.

You either have to make a conscious decision to get people to talk , like you do by asking them questions, and then use soundbites in your production or you let events just take their course and record whatever is said during the day.

The trouble with the first approach is that it is intrusive and the responses are going to be predictable. however you do know what you are going to get so it makes the editing, I would imagine much easier as well. for example you ask the brides father what he is looking forward to during the day and he responds with walking my daughter down the ailse and you use a shot of him walking his daughter down the aisle etc.

The problem with the second is that you dont know what is going to be said or when , so you not only have to concentrate on capturing the right visuals but also you have to listen to what is being said all the time to make sure you dont stop recording at the wrong moment. You then have the further problem of trying to put all the clips together so that what is being said flows logically from one clip to another.

Throughout the day but particularly when we record in peoples homes during the preparations we record some great pieces of dialogue but then have dificulty in actualy using them because they dont follow logically from what has been said before or after.

I feel dialogue is important because we want to remember not only how people looked, we can see that with a still photograph, but how they talked as well.

David L Lewis

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branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Nice film Joey and refreshing to see you're not following the herd.
Too, too many same scene jump cuts that were a major distraction. More cutaways would have helped this flow better, or if desperate, a fade down and up.
Couldn't comment on the sound as I always watch with it off. It's too easy to listen to a great track and miss the obvious filming flaws.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Lusky
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Joined: May 8 2006

Hi Joey,

to be honest with a name like JAMBOjoe I really shouldn't offer any advice :D but I'll make an exception since my local pub land lord used to play for Hearts and he's stood me a couple of drinks in the past.

Anyhoo, I really prefered the second video as the shots were better and more fun (like the wee boy in church) and in general they seemed better composed.
some of the cuts did jar although there was a jump cut (think it was the second video) where you show th kissing in the car cut to a bit of a close up that I liked.
During thewalking shots I like a wee bit of a diferent angle maybe down low and let them walk past you, it can often look a lot more interesting.

Regards live sound, I stick to using the vows or parts of the speeches where I have clean audio and excerpts that make sense on their own, It can just add to it th bit more.

John Paul

kaandaro
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Joined: Jan 26 2008

Hi Joe

I liked them both!

xx

David L Lewis
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Joined: Jan 11 2006

I'm still learning Jambojoe but there are things that I noticed ....your clients might not, but others will.

as has been mentioned you need to get far more cutaways. You cannot have a shot of the car arriving and it still moving and then cut to a shot of the car stationary with the groom already getting out. something needs to have happened in between. It really doesnt matter what but there has to be something, perhaps a shot of someone already there and waiting. The shot doesnt have to be taken in between the two shots it could have been shot before or after, it really doesnt matter.

another trick to cover this situation was taught on a video skills course and that is to think about where the car is going to end up and thn try to end up on the cars grill and logo as it comes to rest after staying there for a second or so you can then use your second shot of the groom getting out of the car.

similarly after the groom gets out of the car the very next shot has him walking with his friends , again this doesnt work because there needs to be something in between.

David L Lewis

Hello I'm in Mensa, Is there anything you would like me to explain to you?

ChrisG
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Joined: Apr 10 1999

OK

I am not in the Wedding video business, I nearly commented last night but decided to wait for those with commercial experience to have their input.

A few tech points made but I don't have a problem with the whole thing.

Why?

Because you could pull that out stick it on the telly to show people (mum, grandad, aunt mary) and have a laugh about it in 10 years time. My concern is that some of the current "productions", which are phenomenal and incredibly skillful tributes to an important event won't stand that repeat watchability test in the future.

Just my thought as a member of the "audience"

JamboJoe
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Joined: Aug 14 2008

Hi Folks, lots of good comments for me to take on board. Can I maybe try to explain a couple of points though. These clips are basically the highlights that I would place at the end of the full film. As such, I never use live sound in this part of the film. This is merely a collection of clips that I deem to have been important and/or "Interesting".

Whilst my clients have already seen the clips during the main film, I can see how people viewing this for the first time would be confused by the "scattered" nature of the compilation.

Thanks for all the feedback. This is why I put it up for review...to help me improve!:)

Much appreciated.

JJ

stuart621
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Joined: Oct 24 2001
JamboJoe wrote:
Hi Folks, lots of good comments for me to take on board. Can I maybe try to explain a couple of points though. These clips are basically the highlights that I would place at the end of the full film. As such, I never use live sound in this part of the film. This is merely a collection of clips that I deem to have been important and/or "Interesting".

Yes I'm surprised people didn't pick up on that as there are plenty of other examples of highlights clips like this elsewhere on the forum.

To that extent, I think the jump cuts are perfectly acceptable and I think the way you've avoided a lot of the current clichéd ways of doing things will help it to stand the test of time, as Chris says above.

The only real "no-no" as far as I'm concerned is the "goldfishing" - people talking without us being able to hear what they are saying. This is generally considered to be not very good. A way round this is to slow down the clips where people are talking. In practice, it's quite difficult to avoid shots of people talking in wedding videos, though...

barbergraham
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Joined: Feb 16 2004
sorry about this

Your quote on your website and the comments here speak volumes,

Your quote.
So with that in mind, look no further than Video Excel Productions to capture your day. We have been in wedding video production for 5 years. Based in Livingston, West Lothian, we film romantic weddings all over Central Scotland and our work speaks for itself

I dont like to pass comment but you have been at this for five years?, and this is what customers get.

One thing I have learned from posting and asking for feed back is, what the pros think is good work and what the customer likes are two completely diff things. One of americas pros did a podcast proving this.

barbergraham

colin rowe
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Joined: Dec 16 2000

Hi JamboJoe.
Just keep doing what your doing, its fine, and if your clients like it, what more could you, or they want. Your clients opinions are far more important to your business than anyone elses.

Colin Rowe

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

That's not really the point of putting clips up for review. If professional opinions on a production don't really matter then don't post one, be content with clients opinions.
Joey was obviously interested in what other producers thought and he has said so.
My comments were based on the sample being a highlights clip and I was never confused into thinking this was the main production. :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

colin rowe
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Joined: Dec 16 2000

Just my opinion Branny. My comments were not directed at any post at all. You are quite right about putting clips up for review, expect some flak. The post was simply my opinion, I did not see any great reason to change much at all. (but hey, its all subjective).

Colin Rowe

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Correct. Some, myself included, see a few areas where a final polish could add something even more special, if that's what's wanted.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

JamboJoe
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Joined: Aug 14 2008

When someone submits a clip to this forum, they are simply asking others for their opinion? In most cases we are looking for constructive criticism from both a technical and artistic point of view so that we can learn from others experience.

At the end of the day, it is all about opinions and everyone is entitled to one. I received lots of constructive feedback from many and I am grateful for that. It will help me improve!
As for what my customers get...every single one has been absolutely delighted so far! :)

dvnam
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Joined: Oct 16 2006

I think you could tighten it a bit by cutting the two speakers before they move off, cut the groom a little prior to kissing his bride in the car, drop a couple of the shots where the bride is struggling with the wind and looking a bit in discomfort. (I can appreciate the wind would have been a problem during the event and you want to reflect that but in a highlights package I think it doesn't want to be too prominent and I think there's just a tad too many shots of this in here. Step back after a while and look at it again and I think you may see this - objectivity is so hard to come by after you've been so involved in the shoot and edit for an appreciable time!)

The jump cuts can work in a highlights package but have you tried a couple of cross dissolves or 'dip-to-white' transitions? (If the clips are too short for 'handles' for the dissolves you could slo-mo 'em maybe using monochrome or sepia effects?) maybe use a couple of shots with soft focus and perhaps glow effects?

As for the sound, you can always add a few bits of monologue/dialogue and simply drop the level of the music during the speaking so it's still audible as a bed below the vocal.

All in all it's shot, framed and exposed well but I think it would benefit from a bit of variety, as described above, to highlight the tools available at your disposal and elevate it to a higher level.