Hi again and in my quest for all things cheap and chinese I have been researching low cost Lav mics to use as spares and as a low cost XLR terminated mics for PA and corporate use.
I bought a couple of these off e-bay and they are very well made with metal bodies and clips and come with a foam windshield, they are available in 1m and 3m length cables and terminate in a moulded non locking 3.5mm jack plug. They work fine with the sennheiser G2 radio mics and will be ideal as a low cost spare mic, they actually sound very good and I have modified two of the 3m cable versions by adding XLR connectors to use with 12v phantom power suppled by my mixers, they could be made 48v phantom but you would need to add more components to do this.
The mic heads are quite bulky and about the same size as a sony ECM 50 but they also do smaller versions which I have also ordered as spares for my G2 radio mics. They are marked as unidirectional but seem pretty much omni to me and also work very well if not better upside down.
Larger head ECM50 type version with 3m cable: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UltraDisk-4033-Metal-Unidirectional-Lapel-lavalier-microphone-3-5mm-3-metre-wire-/330639120536?pt=UK_Music_Instruments_Microphones_MJ&hash=item4cfba09898#ht_5307wt_1165
Smaller ME2 type version with 1m cable: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UltraDisk-4016-pro-Metal-Unidirectional-Lapel-lavalier-microphone-3-5mm-1-metre-/330639053679?pt=UK_Music_Instruments_Microphones_MJ&hash=item4cfb9f936f#ht_3903wt_1165
Cheap as chips and shipped next day special delivery from the UK, these sound very good for the money and I will post some tests once I get some time to do them.
http://cpc.farnell.com/pulse/mic-500lj-black/miniature-lavalier-tie-clip-microphone/dp/MP34153
A little dearer but it does come with the locking jack to fit Senny wireless packs.
They also do them in brown and beige. CPC also sell the locking 3.5 jack plugs for less tha a couple of quid
I've seen those Rob but what I like about the ultradisc ones is that they are metal construction and come with metal clips which are more robust, the clips are also easier to loop the cable through and are more isolated from the cable, will get a couple of those locking jacks though as they are very good value from CPC.
It'll be interesting to see your results Gary, I've been on the lookout for some cheap ones for the heavy handed Groom's I seem to be getting lately.
Hi Pete will do some on-line tests next week when I have the smaller version, initial tests with the larger one show it is very good and quite close to the sound of the ME2, certainly very useable to my ears!
OK Pete here are some quick tests with all three lav mics I have: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaSAgymq6Ww
The smaller ultradisk 4016 mic sounds very good to me and at times has more about it than the sennheiser ME2, both mics were used straight into the camera from the G2 radio receiver with the same gain structure.
The ultradisk 4016 seems to have more low freq but as said in the test I would probably filter it out and it would then match the ME2 more closely.
The larger more expensive (£13.95) 4033 mic is not as good to my ear but still acceptable as a spare or for general use cheap XLR terminated mic.
Personally I think the 4016 is a cracking mic for less than £10 and is now in my kit as a spare back-up, adding locking 3.5mm jack plugs would help but it works with the G2 straight away and sounds pretty good to me.
The fact they are metal bodied makes them more robust than most cheap mics and the quality is very good with a sturdy metal clip and foam windgag provided UKET.co.uk
What do you think?
Well they certainly sound very similar in your tests and, at that price, have to be worth a go.
I'll get a couple ordered tomorrow, thanks for taking the time to upload the results.
As we used to say nigh enough for jazz and I think at £9.95 for the 4016 they are worth a punt as main lav mic's or as low cost spares or for use in situations where your decent mic's may get trashed or not returned.
The only thing is they are cardioid, which means accurate aiming needed - I looked at their website and there are loads - but all uni, not omni - how odd. The CPC is omni- and I've had loads of these over the years for radio mic hire to anybody involving kids or idiots. I treat them as disposable. I think when I worked it out once that every radio system I have, over it's lifetime has had more than it's cost spent replacing mics. In my professional panto, I have to complete proper forms for every mic we damage, as they're all charged for. At over £200 a pop, we never put them on kids, or even certain dancers. Too risky.
They are not very cardioid Paul if at all and looking at the design they are just omni capsules with some small phase cancellation slots behind.
They seem to respond pretty much like the ME2 and still work OK upside down, will do some more tests specifically on the smaller one the 4016 as it sounds better and is more ME2 like.
Well, I had two of the 4016 mics delivered yesterday, tested both and, they work great.
I would agree with you Gary, certainly not cardioid, pick up from all round is more than acceptable.
The only down side is the lack of a lockable jack but, I'm sure I'll find a way around that.
Thanks for the link Gary.
Time to get the soldering iron out: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHEAPEST-EBAY-Replacement-Sennheiser-3-5mm-Screw-Locking-Jack-Plug-/320788597793?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item4ab07d8c21#ht_500wt_1156
Good to hear you think they are OK as they are a bargain for less than £10.
Their handling noise is a bit more than the ME2 but try the ME2 type clip on them as it will isolate the mic body from the clip more.
Gary I want to take my damaged locking jack plug of my senn radio mic and replace it with the one in the link.
Could I please ask for the wiring guide as to going about it :)
As far as I know the G2 transmitter allows you to connect mic or line level signals so it has the following input diagram for 3.5mm miniplug:
tip = microphone
ring = line input (so no connection if you connect a mic.)
sleeve = screen
For info the mic's in question here have a two conductor cable when the moulded 3.5mm is cut off so also follow the above wiring scheme of tip and sleeve.
Hope this helps.
Would those work with an H2 d'ya think Gary, or have they got to be powered?
Would those work with an H2 d'ya think Gary, or have they got to be powered?
They have to be powered with around 10v as they are electret mics, it would be easy to use a 9v PP3 battery though as I have modified two of my others for use with my mixers which give 12v, I just wired them to pin 1 and 2 of an xlr and the power goes across the two terminals like it does with the G2.
You're talking way above my pay grade there Gary! :(
Thanks Gary.
I did a load of quick fire media training interviews this week and used the Ultradisk 4033 mic's hooked up to a mono shure M367 mixer which was powering them with 12 volt phantom.
The mic's were clipped on mostly sideways and upside down and as we were in a noisy sports indoor arena side room with air con etc I put an 80 hz hi pass filter on them to remove bass rumble.
I think they performed Ok and I was certainly a lot happier throwing them around and onto the floor after de-rigging at speed than more costly mic's or using my G2's with the ME2 as I did on the initial day.
What do you think for a sub £15 mic?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T4GyIXYbno
I still think the smaller 4016 is a nicer sounding mic but for the cost of these they are ideal as gen purpose lav's and at times sound better than the stock G2 ME2.
Ordered one anyway - seller sez he'll refund if it doesn't work. If it doesn't though, it's a cheap backup for my G2. :)
Ordered one anyway - seller sez he'll refund if it doesn't work. If it doesn't though, it's a cheap backup for my G2. :)
All four that I have worked fine with no problems and they are very well made with metal clips and bodies, the cable is also quite robust, as you say having a spare is always a good thing but I will be using these as part of my main kit as well as they make low cost XLR lav's that will work great with my mixers that can provide the lower phantom voltage.
Arthur,
Did you mean the Zooom H2, if so the plug-in power can be turned on or off by a menu item. I have used it with a mono Sennheiser and stereo Sony lav mic successfully.
Chris
Yes, It's more whether the power output is enough. Mic arrived today. Well made, will test it over the WE. (My daughter's wedding tomorrow....house in chaos) :eek:
OK Bought the 4016.
Plugged into to recorder which afaik doesn't do phantom power by default and records audio.
I notice everyone is talking bout 2-10v power supply for these mic's what should I know?
Not using jack to xlr just standard jack.
happy to admit my ignorance and will be pleased with a simple answer/advice
Hi Chris.
All electret mic's need external power and as you see on the advert it clearly states this is 2-10v DC.
You will need to get some form of adaptor that can provide a power supply to the mic, it can be as easy as using a 9 volt battery as the mic only has two connections required to make it work even though the supplied 3.5mm plug is tip ring sleeve.
G2 radio mics provide this power as do some recorders with plug in power and you can also get external boxes to provide the power too.
OK Bought the 4016.Plugged into to recorder which afaik doesn't do phantom power by default and records audio.
I notice everyone is talking bout 2-10v power supply for these mic's what should I know?
Not using jack to xlr just standard jack.
happy to admit my ignorance and will be pleased with a simple answer/advice
One of these should sort your power problem:
Thanks Dave that looks perfect and low cost for guys who wish to use these mic's with a recorder that takes a 3.5mm jack.
I know of the pro ones terminating in xlr's but didn't post any links as they are vastly more expensive than the mic and it is probably cheaper to build something with a 9v battery and an XLR plug.
One of these should sort your power problem:
I note the module is a mono jack and the mic has described as having a male stereo input and the module would typically be plugged into a stereo jack on a camcorder - does this present any problems?
John D johnross93.freeserve.co.uk
I note the module is a mono jack and the mic has described as having a male stereo input and the module would typically be plugged into a stereo jack on a camcorder - does this present any problems?
Hi John these type of mic's only need two connectors but the sennheiser G2 has three to account for the line and mic level inputs, the 4016 therefore does not have a stereo connector at all but a three pin one to select two different level options.
If you look down the page you will see that the mic is only wired to the tip and sleeve for the G2 so that battery pack basically allows you to plug in a three connector mic such as the 4016 and convert it to a two pin that a recorder that provides no power or a stereo input fed from a mono source.
Some recorders have a three pin connector but it is wired as stereo rather than like the G2 which is for selecting between a mono line level or mic level source.
The ultradisk mics are fed from a two core cable which has the power fed across both wires, they put a three pin plug on so you can use them in mono with a stereo recorder too that provides power such as a mini disc or their dictation machines.
I personally have re-wired four of the mic's for use with XLR's so they work with my shure and other mixers, the mics are unbalanced but with short cables this is OK and I wire the two wires from the mic to pin 1 (screen) and pin 2 (hot) and can then send 12v phantom power across the XLR inputs and they seem to work fine.
48v phantom will not work as stated earlier but you could add some extra resistors and capacitors to enable this.
One other option is to get one of these power supplies but you will then need to add mini XLR connector to the mic and it all ends up being a lot more costly: http://www.soundslive.co.uk/product~name~Audix-APS-911~ID~14529.asp
These mic's need to be treated as my original post as a cheap low cost spare mic for G2 radio mic's or as a mic you don't need to worry about losing or getting trashed, they are not the best you can buy but for the money are well made with metal bodies and mic clips and come with a basic 3.5mm plug in 1.5m or 3m cables, thay also sound very good for the money and if anything the 4016 sounds better and is OK to use upside down as it takes some of the edge off the uni directional??? (omni???) sound quality.
OK put a £3.75 locking jack on and you have a next step up and they are very useable as a ME2 (or ME4, but never heard one so don't know) replacement, but if you are looking at not understanding that you NEED 2-10 volt power or want to add on expensive option to get xlr power you need to look elsewhere.
You can also simply add an XLR connector to get a cheap cabled LAV mic but you still need to power it with 2-10 volts as stated in the advert but as I have also said my 12 volt phantom from my shure and other mixers seem to work OK too and I have used the mic's on several non broadcast training and corporate videos with great success.
Yes I have more expensive and better sounding mic's but in certain situations where they might get trashed or are acceptable sound wise having six of these in my kit bag for less than £100 is a logistical bonus.
As for broadcast work I rarely get asked for specific mic's and if these are useable then I will use them in time, I also have several Takstar capacitor mic's that get used as good quality AKG 451 type mics and at £25 a go they are perfectly acceptable but bear in mind that as I have over 30 years audio experience in location and post prod work I know what I need to do from front end production to delivery before I even record a DB and some people may not have the workflows or experience in mic placement to deal with any extra problems that may occur due to misuse of budget kit, but there again just buying the most expensive kit will still not make you get the best sound and that's what it's all about Alfie! ;0)
Ok.
The reason i asked is that the mic works with no additional power if plugged into camcorder or recorder, do these supply a voltage across the stereo input?
Ok.The reason i asked is that the mic works with no additional power if plugged into camcorder or recorder, do these supply a voltage across the stereo input?
Hi Chris and if it works OK when plugged in to a stereo input then your recorder or camcorder must be providing plug in power and you can use it easily that way.
I'm off to try one with my minidisc recorders now to check if they work OK with them, these are actually for the dictation machines that ultradisk make so I suspect they also provide the plug in power needed to make them work.
P.S just plugged one of the 4016 into my sony mini disc recorders and they work fine with the plug in power that such devices provide, so for weddings and conferences these will make good groom mic's etc that can be sent to remote recording devices with plug in power such as mini disc.
Yes, Marantz recorder input via xlr to jack converter works fine with phantom power set to off. So that is another problem out of the way, now to find someone to interview.
Thanks for the info on these.
Chris
Wow! Finally tested mine today. Needs plugin power set to 'on' (2.5v) in the H2, but audio sounds cleaner if anything than the H2's built in mics. By the way, I bought a 4016 with a 3m cable for only £12.95.
Just got two more 4016 today and have put XLR's on them so I can use them a wired lav mic's, also got some locking jacks for the G2 radio mic ones.
If you wish to do a simple wired lav just cut off the moulded 3.5mm jack and wire the cable to the XLR with pin one the screen and pin 3 the hot wire, it will only work with lower voltage though and not 48v phantom but they also seem to be OK with the 12v all my mixers can provide.
You can wire them for 48v but you will need to research that further and add some more components.
Doing some non broadcast interviews tomoro so will be using two 4016 and will post a clip later.
OK here's another clip using two of the 4016 mic's in a real interview situation.
They have been re-wired to XLR's and are plugged into my Twelco mixer which is feeding 12v phantom to them, lav mics tend not to sound too good on female subjects but these perform very well and the voice on the interviewer is very rich with plenty of top end clarity.
I also added an 80hz high pass filter to get rid of some LF traffic rumble but other wise the mic's are flat with just the limiters on the mixer and the auto gain on the panasonic P2 camera to even the levels out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaATmT1OK34
The 4016 seems the better sounding of the two mic's and the cable is thinner so makes less noise, they are also very omni and I can't hear much difference if they are used upside down.
I now have four of the 4016 and two of the larger 4033 and they will be useful low cost additions to my kit bag, the larger ones will be useful for placed mic situations such as conferences etc as they give a fuller response but the 4016's certainly give the sennheiser ME2 a run for their money and will be good as spares or as main replacements with the addition of some locking jacks from e-bay.
Wow! Finally tested mine today. Needs plugin power set to 'on' (2.5v) in the H2, but audio sounds cleaner if anything than the H2's built in mics. By the way, I bought a 4016 with a 3m cable for only £12.95.
Received my order yesterday and agree with all that you say. Also useful with the Sony MiniDisc.
BTW Gary, I watched your Financial Smiles clip and does the guy ever practice the "Smiles" part of the business:D :D
Harry
No Harry old Stuart is a lovely guy but can bore the pants off a monkey!:D
Finance is a very serious business to him and it took a long long time to do that video so all the lighter takes were binned, it was done as a favour to show him how the internet can be used but I am not sure if he gets any business out of it?
Hi Gary, used to teach accounting to HN students and many a time I was faced with non-smiling faces during the lessons.:D
Harry
Just done some major broadcast interviews with four of the 4016 mic's and will update on how they sound off air once the programme is transmitted!