Organising a film crew in the States

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Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Hi there,

I am trying to organise an interview with a pretty hot American indepedent actor. Only problem is - I will be unable to make a trip to the states, therefore I am looking to organise a crew from here (UK) for the American shoot.

Does anybody know the best way to do this?

Also, in regards to the pay for the crew - should I pay on the basis that they get paid when I recievee the footage? It just seems a bit alien to pay upfront when they will be in a different country.

Cheers,

Nin

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Try a posting here http://www.videouniversity.com/forums/gforum.cgi?guest= some crews are always on hand to help out.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

nash
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Joined: Nov 20 2003

Nim,
Make sure you get the interview footage in the format you need i.e. NTSC vs PAL

........Neil

Neil Ashcroft
Fastroc is Media in Motion
http://www.fastroc.co.uk
[EMAIL=info@fastroc.co.uk]info@fastroc.co.uk[/EMAIL]

HallmarkProductions
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Joined: Aug 29 1999

Which state, and when?

In the past, I have done a fair bit of work in USA, and have contacts.
Contact me if you need more help

Chris

Chris
Time for a new signature now...

ClaireTall
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Joined: Jan 28 2004

We did the same thing but the other way round. We were asked to go to Somerset and interview a Professor in a field about animal welfare issues, by a company in the states for an insert into a TV programme.

We agreed 50% up front and 50% when we put a downloadable but unusable file on our server for him to view. It worked fine and he paid the other 50% online and we Fedexed him the master tape after making a back up copy.

Stay safe on both sides and you won't get your fingers burnt.

Studio with green screen for hire near Gatwick Airport.
Kit hire facilities on site.
excelsiorstudios.co.uk

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Hi Everyone,

I have found a camera op in the states, the only problem is he can't shoot PAL.

He has a Panasonic SDX-900 (24p switchable camera) and a Sony D600 Beta SP camera.

What would be the reccomended option here?

Would it be advisable to shoot NTSC and convert the tapes to PAL upon arrival?

Thanks guys!

StevenBagley
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Joined: Aug 14 2000
Nintembo wrote:
He has a Panasonic SDX-900 (24p switchable camera) and a Sony D600 Beta SP camera.

What would be the reccomended option here?

You need to know/decide on the look and feel of your documentary? Is it going to have a film-like look or straight video? 16:9 or 4:3? All these will influence how he (and you) shoot.

I.e. if you want a film-like look then he's best shooting 24p and you speeding it up to 25p for use with the rest of your 25p footage. On the other hand if you want it a video like look, then have him shoot it 60i and get it converted to 576i25 using an Alchemist PhC converter.

Of course, if you can find someone who can shoot it at the correct speed so much the better.

Steven

Alan Roberts
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Beware, he doesn't mean 24fps, he means 24/1.001=23.976fps, and its drop-frame timecode. That will give you significant headaches. Far, far better to shoot at 25 if your output is to be at 25.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

My main concern would be footage shot (16:9) NTSC would "look" different to that shot on PAL. Would this be the case?

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Also, can anybody tell me what the better camera is out of the Panasonic SDX-900 and Sony D600 Beta SP?

The majority of footage I have shot so far has been on DigiBeta and DV.

Thank you

infocus
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Joined: Jul 18 2003
Nintembo wrote:
My main concern would be footage shot (16:9) NTSC would "look" different to that shot on PAL. Would this be the case?

Quite simply, yes. You'd need to standards convert it to use it in amongst other PAL footage, and that would inevitably be noticeable.

I'd see if your cameraman can hire PAL equipment locally, alternatively it may even be worthwhile checking the economics of flying a PAL cameraman out. If quality is at all important to you (and it sounds like it may be) then NTSC and standards conversion should be seen as a last resort.

Conceivably, shooting SD PAL on a US Z1 (the camera is 50/60Hz switchable) may even be better than shooting on an NTSC 2/3" camera and converting. And US Z1s should be fairly easy to come by.

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Hi,

But surly the quality of a 2/3" camera (even after converting footage to PAL) would be betther than that shot on a Z1?

infocus
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Joined: Jul 18 2003
Nintembo wrote:
But surly the quality of a 2/3" camera (even after converting footage to PAL) would be betther than that shot on a Z1?

Not necessarily, and the answer may vary widely. A converted 2/3" camera may be better than a Z1 in poor lighting,for example, but under ideal conditions the conversion may be the most significant factor. I'd be interested what Mr Roberts thinks.

Alan Roberts
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For shooting in the US I'd seriously consider the SDX900. It's a nice camera and there's a BBC setup document for it (:)). 2"/3, proper lenses, decent v/f. Shoot at 50i or 25p (it does 25p properly). Standards-conversion (frame-rate) is always a last resort, something you should consider only when all alternatives turn out to be impossible. Some converters are good, many are poor, lots are dire.

Can't comment on the Sony, I don't know it.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Hi,

As I have been shooting in the UK on Digi, would my best bet for shooting in the States be going with the 900 and shooting 50i so the footage looks simalar? I'm scared if I shoot 25p the footage will look too filmy for the rest of the footage and there will be an unbalance.

Out of interest, isn't 50i the rate we film in the UK?

DVdoctor
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Joined: Apr 1 1999

Just make sure you can get a 25/50 version in the states. Most of the rental companies are offering it for its24p ability and that is on the 30/60 version, as a lower cost alternative to the varicam. Hope you and your bank manager are on very good terms, you are looking at 600 dollars per day rental ;-(
http://www.studiobfilms.com/rentals/cameras.html
Sharyn

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Out of interest, isn't 50i the rate we film in the UK?

So if the camera were indeed able to shoot 50i, am I right in thinking this would be PAL?

Alan Roberts
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In the UK we generally shoot at 50i or 25p, but we don't shoot PAL. PAL is the composite coding scheme for analogue 4:3 video, PAL belongs to the past, it survives only as the means of broadcasting analogue terrestrial tv and should not be considered for capture or editing.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

DVdoctor
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Joined: Apr 1 1999

In the US it has moved on as the short name to describe a 625 line/50 system vs NTSC short name to describe the 525 line 60 system.
If you look at the PANASONIC brochure you will see it says in the US NTSC-525 or PAL-625

Sharyn

Alan Roberts
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And what about the 525/59.94 version of PAL. Is that PAL as well or is it NTSC? PAL is a composite coding scheme, nothing to do with frame rates or resolutions. PAL hasn't moved on, the manufacturers are wrongly using the naqmes of the coding schemes to describe digital systems that have little or no bearing on them. If you look in any of the standards documents of the ITU/SMPTE etc, you'll never come across any of this misappropriation of names.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

DVdoctor
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Joined: Apr 1 1999

I'm not disagreeing with you technically, I am just saying that at least in the States Panasonic and Sony all still cling to the old habits.

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

So just to sum up,

If I was able to shoot 50i or 25p in the States, would this footage be the same as the footage one would shoot in the UK?

Alan Roberts
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Yes.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Awesome, thank you!

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Bad news I'm afraid.

I have just been informed the Panasonic in question only records in 24p, 24pA, and 60i.

What would be my best option here? I don't really want to shoot in pro scan mode as I don't want the footage looking out of place to other content.

I don't think I'm going to be able to find a PAL operator who is within my budget so if I were to shoot 60i, would the footage look drasticly different to that shot in 50i (esspecialy as it is a doc I am making with varying formats (mainly DigiBeta, but some DV)

Thanks

Alan Roberts
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In that case, it must be the US version, it runs at a system speed of 59.94 instead of 50. So it records drop-frame time code and the actual speeds are 59.94i (60/1.001) and 23.976 (24/1.001). If you shoot at "60i" you'll have to standards-convert to use the footage in a 50i composition, with all the usual cavets about convetre performance.

But, apart from the frame rate difference, there's no reason why you shouldn't get exactly the same pictures from both cameras, if the re4solutuions were the same. The problem is that, at SD, the resolutions are considerably different (576 lines at 50Hz, 480 lines at 59.94), and the chroma resolution's different (4:2:0 sampling at 50, 4:1:1 sampling at 59.94). So importing 59.94 SD material into a project, you'll get 480 oine resolution not 576, and the chroma will be 4:1:0 (180-pixels wide by 288 lines), the worst of both worlds.

Standards-conversion is really the last resort. Shoot 50 if you can.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

So if I were unable to find a camera at 50i within my budget, and had to choose shooting 60i or 24p, which would it be?

Thank you

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Hi,

Would it be advisable to shoot on a Z1 in DV, 50i mode in contrast to the above?

StevenBagley
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Alan Roberts wrote:
But, apart from the frame rate difference, there's no reason why you shouldn't get exactly the same pictures from both cameras, if the re4solutuions were the same. The problem is that, at SD, the resolutions are considerably different (576 lines at 50Hz, 480 lines at 59.94), and the chroma resolution's different (4:2:0 sampling at 50, 4:1:1 sampling at 59.94). So importing 59.94 SD material into a project, you'll get 480 oine resolution not 576, and the chroma will be 4:1:0 (180-pixels wide by 288 lines), the worst of both worlds..

Isn't the SDX900 DVCPro50 so 4:2:2?

Steven

StevenBagley
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Nintembo wrote:
Would it be advisable to shoot on a Z1 in DV, 50i mode in contrast to the above?

You'd need to make sure the shutter was set to a multiple of 60Hz, otherwise you'll get nasty beat patterns with the mains frequency in certain types of lighting.

Steven

Alan Roberts
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SDX does DVCPro25 as well as 50, then you get 4:1:1. That's the problem with this level of kit, you can't ever be definite about what it does because it always depends on how you set it up. And, of course, there's a settings document for the SDX900 not a million miles away :)

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

DVdoctor
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Joined: Apr 1 1999
Nintembo wrote:
Bad news I'm afraid.

I have just been informed the Panasonic in question only records in 24p, 24pA, and 60i.

What would be my best option here? I don't really want to shoot in pro scan mode as I don't want the footage looking out of place to other content.

I don't think I'm going to be able to find a PAL operator who is within my budget so if I were to shoot 60i, would the footage look drasticly different to that shot in 50i (esspecialy as it is a doc I am making with varying formats (mainly DigiBeta, but some DV)

Thanks

Thats what I was trying to say all along, in europe based on the US influence you typically can Find (sorry alan ) NTSC and PAL version to use the short hand term, in the US it is very very rare.

Sharyn

DVdoctor
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Alan Roberts wrote:
In that case, it must be the US version, it runs at a system speed of 59.94 instead of 50. So it records drop-frame time code and the actual speeds are 59.94i (60/1.001) and 23.976 (24/1.001). If you shoot at "60i" you'll have to standards-convert to use the footage in a 50i composition, with all the usual cavets about convetre performance.

But, apart from the frame rate difference, there's no reason why you shouldn't get exactly the same pictures from both cameras, if the re4solutuions were the same. The problem is that, at SD, the resolutions are considerably different (576 lines at 50Hz, 480 lines at 59.94), and the chroma resolution's different (4:2:0 sampling at 50, 4:1:1 sampling at 59.94). So importing 59.94 SD material into a project, you'll get 480 oine resolution not 576, and the chroma will be 4:1:0 (180-pixels wide by 288 lines), the worst of both worlds.

Standards-conversion is really the last resort. Shoot 50 if you can.

This is why though it may be technically incorrect the manufacturers call the pal or ntsc.

It is also why, again from a US stand point, when we get to HD, people are trying to be able on both sides at least agree on 24p. It may not be the greatest, it may not be perfect, but as long as hollywood keeps using 24p and now that hd dvd's look like both bd and HD are gong to be 24p we might finally have a format that you at least can get identical format on cameras on both sides. Or if worst came to worst you could shoot HD 25p, and then slow it down to 24p or shoot hd 24p and speed it up to 25p. Again I know a lot of people are not going to agree, but for a while the convergence of the two worlds is around 24/25p in HD and the push is definitely to 24p and move away from sd to hd. This avoids the standards convert, since at worst you are just varying the playback speed frame rate.
Sharyn

Alan Roberts
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I'd agree about 24p if that were true. As far as I can tell, the only cameras that really do shoot 24p are the Panasonic Varicam and the Sony HDW900, all the rest shoot 23.98 with DF TC. They aren't the same. Try editing with the wrong settings and see what a mess you can get into.

Then there's the sound issue: 24 speeded up to 25 raises exactly a semitone, so the soun d's still musical; 23.98 raises a semitone and a bit, so the sounds not musical, you need to do a pitch shift to get it to be musical again. Fortunately, the decent decks do this for you (HDCAM and DVCProHD) but I've yet to come across any nle that does it automatically.

This can of worms is quite big, and has some really nasty worms in it. Far better to shoot and edit at the right speed.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

infocus
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Joined: Jul 18 2003
dvdoctoress wrote:
It is also why, again from a US stand point, when we get to HD, people are trying to be able on both sides at least agree on 24p......... for a while the convergence of the two worlds is around 24/25p in HD and the push is definitely to 24p and move away from sd to hd.

That may make sense for such as feature film production (and you do say Hollywood), but for many types of programming 24p is unsuitable, the motion rendition needs 1080i/25(30) or 720p/50(60). Sky for one have given reasons why they don't want to mix different HD formats within a channel, and that's why I believe they've settled on 1080i/25 - obviously they can carry 25p over that as psf. What gets put on a disc is one thing, the wider broadcast issue is quite another.

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

So just to recap,

Would I be better of shooting on a Z1 (50i, with the correct shutter speed) or shooting on the NTSC Panasonic and converting the footage - I would be able to convert with either a Snell and WilcoxAlchemist Platinum PHC (which is supposed to be the best available) or S&W MACH1.

Thanks

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Any takers ; )

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Hi,

I Have been told the Panasonic AJ-HDC27 shoots a varying frame rates. I was just curios as to whether it would shoot 25p?

Also, for lighting I have been told that my lighting technicians lights are 60 strobes - will this be suitable?

Nintembo
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Joined: Jun 22 2004

Also,

PANASONIC AJ-SDX900shoots 25p, but does it film 50i, 16:9

Thank you so much for your help.