Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6 Pro review - now live!

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bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

Comments welcome about our review of Pinnacle Liquid Edition 6 Pro.

Now live! Click here

Bob C

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

This will be going live tonight or tomorrow - I'll add a URL then.

Bob C

Barry Hunter
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Joined: Nov 30 2001

Look forward to that!

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

Sorry folks - we looked at it on the page and decided we needed to make a LOT of changes, and we were all too tired to do them.

We'll try to get this up by early Friday pm, hopefully at the latest.

Bob C

bcrabtree
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DV Ed
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Joined: Jun 10 2002

Ive not read it all yet but the green links to very random adverts are quite annoying!! Also do you know anywhere I can get LE 6.1 beta to test before I wipe this PC clean and start from the beginning? Thanks

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

DV_Ed,

Agree about the links but, for now, and until the "real" DVdoctor site goes live, we're all going to have to put up with them.

As for a beta, there should not be any way you would be able to get hold of a copy because it's not available to the public.

Er, views on the review, people?

Bob C

Alan Craven
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Joined: Jan 26 2001

Past experience of Pinnacle, and particularly previous versions of Edition, ensure that I would not buy this product no matter how favourable the review, and as Bob is aware I am not a fan of reviews!

Having said that, this is an excellent review. The opening paragraph makes absolutely clear the limitations on hardware posed by this kind of software and should serve as a powerful caveat emptor.

The features are succinctly outlined thoughout the lengthy review and it is clear that the review is based on a great deal of hands on experience by more than one experienced editor. It is most definitely NOT the usual re-hashed press release.

For me the best feature of the review is the repeated emphasis on "what might have been". if only Pinnacle could get their act together and wait until they had sorted out the beta problems before going to market with the latest, greatest thing. The mention of a 6.1 beta reminds me of the release of Edition 5.0 - there was a several hundred megabyte "patch" released before they got my low cost upgrade package to me. I did not have broadband in those days, and had Gary Mackenzie (or Bob?) to thank for a CD to bail me out.

One comment about the deficiencies in the printed manuals, etc. I suspect that, as with most Pinnacle manuals, they are a translation of the original German. I should be surprised if there was no German text to be found in the manuals, particularly on screen shots.

If all reviews were this good, I might just change my view of the genre.

I hope this excellent start is a harbinger of many more good things to come.

DV Ed
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Joined: Jun 10 2002

The Beta upgrade is apparently 600 megs (if anyone out there wishes to send a copy I promise I wont tell anyone - It could seriously improve my pinnacle relations at the moment).

Perhaps its just me and I may be about to show myself up but I have always quite liked the pinnacle manuals. They seem to be a US translation rather than german none of the images I have seen are in anything other than english, and more to the point they have taught me things I have missed in the past.

I would like to add that if you import media for multicam all as camera 1 you do get to keep sound for the multi cam editor as well (or so I have been told I have not yet tried)

VERY nice review by the way.

Ed

Gyr
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Joined: Jan 17 2005

I read the review with interest. There was a lot of good stuff in there, but I can't comment too much because although I've bought the upgrade to version 6 I'm finishing off a major project in version 5.5 and there's no way I'm going to install an upgrade part way through a project.

It does seem that 6.1 will improve matters for those with an interest in HDV, but I suspect NLEs will be leapfrogging each other for a while as they upgrade their HDV support.

I must admit I've generally been very happy with Edition. It's a powerful program with good media management tools and personally I found the interface very easy to learn. Upgrades have always been very reasonably priced and I hope that version 7 will give us a full range of DVD facilities (eg including subtitles and extra audio tracks).

A fully featured and well integrated editing and DVD authoring program is my ideal. At the moment adding a small bit of footage in Edition means a fair bit of extra work in the DVD authoring program I use.

DV Ed
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Joined: Jun 10 2002

Bob - I tried the HDV setting suggested, and had no problems with basic transitions etc of titledeko created footage. Thats a promising sign even though I dont intend to get a HDV camera for a long time.

stephenlnoe
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Joined: Feb 16 2005

Hi,

I've been cutting with Pinnacle for 8 years and I know the frustration that can come from Pinnacles solutions. The newest version of Liquid Edition (v6) does not come without it's frustrations as well but truth be told it is the best editor I've used. I'm experienced on Avid Xpress and Premiere.

Edition has added a new audio engine and mixer to their v6 offering that is dynamite and really competent. Their DVD authoring from the timeline is pathetic but face it, it's better than any other editor that does not have DVD integrated at all.

The encoder in v6 is head and shoulders above the v5.x encoder but there is still room for improvement by adding a 2Pass VBR routine (which it lacks in favor of a statistical single pass VBR). The FX algorithm routines included in Liquid Edition 6 can not be matched by any editor at it's level. You have complete control over FX rendering routines achieving astounding results. Real time editing is a reality with either the Pro break out box or the MovieBox Deluxe which gives you a choice that no other vendor offers.

You must have a horse of a computer to run with Edition 6. The reviewers test machine would happily work with Edition 5.x but not with v6. Current (first Quarter 2005) top of the line computers are required to run Edition 6. Nothing less will cut it.

HD is still coming along and HD does edit on Editions timeline (I've edited Varicam M2T). The break out boxes do not support HD or HDV for realtime preview to NTSC monitor. I do not know what they plan to do about it. My understanding is that there will be full screen preview to the computer monitor for HD and it may be HD to a DVI monitor. This is speculation.

I could go on and on. I use Edition every day and know the product very well.

good luck...

DV Ed
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Joined: Jun 10 2002

What a great post. Nearly makes me feel proud I choose LE over the competition. stephenlnoe, You seem to know alot about this. I am concerned however that Pinnacle has sold of the cubasis stuff again to Yamaha, does this have any future implications to Edition? I was really hoping we would get a great audio editor what would intergrate as one, something along the lines of cooledit. Also do dont happen to have a beta update I can try to see if it fixes my LE6 issues?

Ed

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

Stephen,

Great to see you over here, rather than propping up Pinnacle's official support forums for Liquid!

Folk who use those forums will know how useful Stephen's (stephenlnoe's) contributions (non-official) have been.

We've got a good few LE users here who I know would welcome your contributions on these boards with open arms.

Just like the mods on Pinnacle's forums, in fact. Cough!

I should perhaps add that I was with Pinnacle on Tuesday (a pre-NAB press do) and was told - NOT off the record - that there will be full-screen preview available to an external monitor (not just to the PC's own monitor - which IS definitely the case with 6.1).

This requires the right monitor and the right graphics card - and the card that was specifically mentioned was the new Matrox Parhelia AVPe that is also mentioned by Axel from Ulead in his comment to the Sony FX1 review thread.

Oh and DV_Ed - NO ONE is going to give you a copy of the beta once you've asked them on an open forum, are they?

Think about it!

So, do us ALL a big favour - just stop asking.

Bob C

Keith Head
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Joined: Apr 13 1999

Comments on the review;

1.If you don't like the pop-up links, try the printer friendly version - it has far fewer pop-ups and is a continuous read instead of page-by-page.

2.A couple of questions which don't seem to me to be clearly answered in the review;
a. What does the break-out box offer if you don't need it for analog input?
b. Is the software only version the same software as the pro version?

Keith Head

-Robbie-
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Joined: Aug 20 2000

Keith,

Your answers

A/ Only analogue input and output really as you said (including digital/analogue audio). you can encoder direct to MPEG2 Long GOP Format and Uncompressed AVI in realtime and use these on the timeline but only from analogue sources. DV has to go to timeline and then is converted

MPEG2 encoding is system dependant as Stephen said, as it does need a fast machine.

B/ The software’s are identical in feature set between the Pro and the Normal software.
This is true as you go up the pinnacle range all the way to chrome and the New HD board. The main difference will in and outs and possibly more realtime based on hardware.

Robbie

in-deep.co.uk

There is more free information on digital video including free tutorials in the free knowledge area on the website

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999
Quote:
Originally posted by Keith Head:
Comments on the review;

1.If you don't like the pop-up links, try the printer friendly version - it has far fewer pop-ups and is a continuous read instead of page-by-page.

Indeed, but these links are temporary.

2.A couple of questions which don't seem to me to be clearly answered in the review;
a. What does the break-out box offer if you don't need it for analog input?
b. Is the software only version the same software as the pro version?

Keith Head [/QB]

Not sure that I agree the questions aren't answered but if readers generally agree that they're not, then they are not.

But, to clarify (if that's needed)

Concerning 2a - well it also has analogue outputs for monitoring externally and these include 5.1 audio outputs for monitoring surround sound. Note, too, that there is component in/out as well. I suspect that component out will at some stage be usable for monitoring HD/HDV.

Concerning 2b - there isn't, as best as I can tell, any difference between the software that comes on its own and the software that comes with the Pro breakout box. If there had been we'd have said so but I understand that if we don't say something specifically, people can make dangerously false assumptions.

Bob C

DV Ed
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Joined: Jun 10 2002

I know that no one is going to publically offer me a beta update, I did read somewhere one another forum that somone would but I was unable to find that again, however the reason I did mention the fact clearly knowing no one would do this on line was in hope that somone may email me. No harm in trying and there is slightly mote chance asking than doing nothing at all...

Keith Head
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Joined: Apr 13 1999

Thank you for the clarifications.

I think my doubts were raised by the sub-heading at the start of the review;

"(software only - not tested)".

Keith Head

cyberwest
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Joined: Sep 13 2000

But what the Pro Box doesn't do is output over FireWire in real time. This requires prior rendering.

James Morris

simonbaker4
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Joined: Mar 2 2005

Regarding the statement that LE 6.0 cannot capture HDV from Sony camcorders:

The Sony HDV-FX1 and HVR-Z1 can downconvert the recorded HDV to SD before transmitting it by firewire. The timecode is preserved the same in SD and HDV.

Does anyone know if is possible to capture from these Sony HDV camcorders in SD, edit your project in SD, then later using LE 6.1 recapture (batch capture) the footage in HDV and re-render the project in HD? In other words, so we can work now in SD and easily convert the project to HD later?

-Robbie-
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Joined: Aug 20 2000

I have capture HDV fottage into edition with the small Sony HDV recorder. I have not tested the Z1 and FX1 only becuase i need got hold of one yet to test to play with. You need to have the device set to HDV not dv other wise the computer (XP) thinks it's a DV device not the right imaging device need to capture HDV

In the shipping version of 6.0 you could capture on the fly the first clip no problem but would hold the first frame of the next clip. it would not capture any footage from this point. close and re-open the logging tool would reset this and you could capture again. you have to have SP2 of XP on your machine.

version 6.1 solve this.

There should be no reason that capturing as DV then re-batch in HDV in 6.1 should not work. but I have yet to try it,

Robbie

in-deep.co.uk

There is more free information on digital video including free tutorials in the free knowledge area on the website

Stigg
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Joined: Apr 7 2004

Any mention of machine/specs used for review?

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999
Quote:
Originally posted by Stigg:
Any mention of machine/specs used for review?

These are on page 8 of the review - the page called, "Video effects & system specs".

Bob C

Stigg
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Joined: Apr 7 2004

Thanks!

Does the AC-3 encoder mentioned in the specs allow file production or is it just to SPDIF output?

PS when running two TFTs from the ATI Radeon 9600 Pro is one run from D-Sub and the other DVI?

Stigg
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Joined: Apr 7 2004

Anyone?