Try this simple test.

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tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

SOUND CONTINUITY

I've always said that wherever you are, you can perform this simple test. Ready?

Imagine the four points of the compass, N, S, E and W. Turn to face them one at a time right now, wherever you are. Done that? And what do you see?

You see four completely different viewpoints, be you in bed, in the car, the forest, the desert, the office, even in jail. And what else do you notice?
Well, you notice that the soundtrack, like the view directly overhead, is unaltered; it blends smoothly and imperceptibly between the 4 viewpoints.

So I tell filmmakers that they can cut between takes to their heart's content. Each scene can be completely and strikingly divorced from the preceding and following one, and the audience will accept it without
question. But there is no forgiveness with the sound track. To be realistic and acceptable it has to be continuous, smoothly blending one shot with another.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule. Cutting to the music beat is effective because it breaks this rule. Shock tactics need violent changes in sound pressure levels to stir emotion, but for most of the time work needs to be done to smooth every audio break.

Once this is achieved your movie takes on a whole new level of realism. This is where an audio background will stand you in good stead as a film maker.
My pal Terry Mendoza found he was already one jump ahead of the competition when he took up movie making in the early 70s, purely because he knew how to record and mix sound tracks.

There is only so much time in life to learn. The rest of the time must be spent in doing.

tom.

Alan Roberts at work
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Joined: May 6 1999

An old adage from a professional editor (not me, honest); "Video editing is 90% getting the sound right, 10% doing vison cuts-only editing, and the rest is special effects"

Jim Bird
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Joined: Sep 15 2000

Hi,

I've sent to the USA for the book on sound recording, that, contributor Dave Currie recommended.

He also recommended the video book ON CAMERA written by a bloke from the BBC. A great read.

Jim Bird. (Chirpy, chirpy, cheap, cheap).

pcwells
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Joined: Jun 10 1999

I tried the test, but got a lot of distortion on the left channel when I lost my balance and fell over.

tvrboy
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Joined: Apr 25 2001

I tried this test when standing at the urinal in the gents at lunchtime. The other customers were not best pleased.

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

you boys - you do make me laugh.

vega1970
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Joined: Oct 10 2000

I think I did the test
way too fast...got dizzy and fell over...can I sue ?

So long Suckas !!!

Dave Currie
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Joined: Mar 4 2001

Tom,
I've been taking iron tablets and can't seem to get past magnetic North!

However, with the aid of a mirror I have been able to scan all points of the compass...and you are right - my wife's voice drones on at the same pitch whichever way I look!

Dave

(now I'm for it!)

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

STOP STOP. Will no-one take me seriously? What's all this stuff about iron pills and urinals, dizziness and falling over. And if you sue, me tarzan.

Alan Roberts
Alan Roberts's picture
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Joined: May 3 1999

Calm down Tom, I'm taking you seriously.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Chirpy
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Joined: Sep 7 2000

quote:By Jim Bird:
Jim Bird. (Chirpy, chirpy, cheap, cheap).

Thou shalt not take my name in vain!!!

Chirpy.

Chirpy's Big Breakfast can be heard on Radio England International. These are repeat shows (he's retired now) played Monday to Friday 8am-12 noon and repeated in the evening from 8pm-midnight. Also, Sunday 8am-12 noon. (Click link to listen) www.onlineradio5.com/2013/06/radio-england-international.html

Jim Bird
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Joined: Sep 15 2000

Hi Chirpy,

Chirpy, chirpy, cheap, cheap was the title of a song in the charts 30 years ago, sung by a group called, Middle of the Road.

Sorry, but, any connection with your name is purely coincidental.

Jim Bird (CHEAP skate).

Mad_mardy
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

quote:Originally posted by Alan Roberts at work:
[B"Video editing is 90% getting the sound right, 10% doing vison cuts-only editing, and the rest is special effects"[/B]

What about pace,style,rythym,interest,look and feel? Editing is about taking something raw and bringing it to life,
channeling an audiences attention and drawing them into the world you have created for them (this is not only for films but for everything)Sound is very important i agree but without the rest it is no more than a harmonious droning.

System 1: AMD X6 2.8, M4A79 Deluxe, 4GB DDR2, ATI HD4870 1GB DDR 3, 2TB total drive space, Matrox RTX 2, Premiere Pro CS4

System 2: AMD X2 5600, M2NPV-VM, 2GB DDR2, Geforce 8600GT 256 DDR 3, 450GB Total drive space, RTX100 with Premiere Pro 2

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Chirpy
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Joined: Sep 7 2000

Hi Jim,

quote:By Jim Bird:
Chirpy, chirpy, cheap, cheap was the title of a song in the charts 30 years ago, sung by a group called, Middle of the Road.

Yes Jim...it got to No.1 on 19th. June 1971.(by the way, it's 'cheep cheep' not 'cheap cheap'...sorry about that!)

I came across it in December 1970 while working at the Odeon Cinema. At the time I had a half-hour warm up session on 'The Super Saturday Show' entertaining the kids before the films started.

I played Top 20 hits for them and had a group of 4 or 5 go-go dancers on stage with me. (I was 20 and they were about 9 - 12 years old)

Because I'd already had my nick-name when I first started DeeJaying in '67, we decided to call ourselves 'Chirpy & the Cheep, Cheeps'.

That's when someone presented me with the record which we used as our theme song. We were really chuffed when it went to No.1 six months after we started playing it!

Most of the 'Cheep Cheeps' still live in Colchester - one of them does P.R. work for Colchester United.

Oh...and before you ask: "Why choose 'Chirpy'?" It's 'cos my Surname's 'Finch'.

Cheers,

Chirpy.

Chirpy's Big Breakfast can be heard on Radio England International. These are repeat shows (he's retired now) played Monday to Friday 8am-12 noon and repeated in the evening from 8pm-midnight. Also, Sunday 8am-12 noon. (Click link to listen) www.onlineradio5.com/2013/06/radio-england-international.html

Rookie
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Joined: Sep 27 1999

quote:Originally posted by tom hardwick:
[B]...So I tell filmmakers that they can cut between takes to their heart's content. Each scene can be completely and strikingly divorced from the preceding and following one, and the audience will accept it without
question...
B]

And this is why I always try to edit only the images first, without even listening to the sound. When I am satisfied with what I've got I start on the soundtrack. All the minor errors then seem to magically disappear...

Chirpy
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Joined: Sep 7 2000

I'm in the closet under the stairs. The door is closed and it's very dark cos their's no lights. It doesn't matter which way I face, the view is exactly the same - Black!
The only sound I can hear is the shuffling of my feet and a faint, squeek coming from the direction of the floor...Ouch!!! Something just bit my big toe!!!

Now I've fallen on my camera and broken the LCD Display!

Oh No! Now I can't find the door...and I suffer from claustrophobia.

This is all your fault Tom.

Chirpy's Big Breakfast can be heard on Radio England International. These are repeat shows (he's retired now) played Monday to Friday 8am-12 noon and repeated in the evening from 8pm-midnight. Also, Sunday 8am-12 noon. (Click link to listen) www.onlineradio5.com/2013/06/radio-england-international.html

Mad_mardy
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

what i'm worried about is what are you doing under the stairs with your camera ?????
this is kinda suspicious

System 1: AMD X6 2.8, M4A79 Deluxe, 4GB DDR2, ATI HD4870 1GB DDR 3, 2TB total drive space, Matrox RTX 2, Premiere Pro CS4

System 2: AMD X2 5600, M2NPV-VM, 2GB DDR2, Geforce 8600GT 256 DDR 3, 450GB Total drive space, RTX100 with Premiere Pro 2

Camera's: JVC HD200, JVC HD101, 2X Sony HC62

Gladders
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Joined: Apr 28 1999

It's not one of those ones with the "Night Shot" infra red feature, is it? You know, the ones which are supposed to be able to see through clothing...

Are you sure it's dark? You may have gone blind.

Paul

Paul

Mad_mardy
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

see through clothing? really?
now let me see what possible use could i have for that

System 1: AMD X6 2.8, M4A79 Deluxe, 4GB DDR2, ATI HD4870 1GB DDR 3, 2TB total drive space, Matrox RTX 2, Premiere Pro CS4

System 2: AMD X2 5600, M2NPV-VM, 2GB DDR2, Geforce 8600GT 256 DDR 3, 450GB Total drive space, RTX100 with Premiere Pro 2

Camera's: JVC HD200, JVC HD101, 2X Sony HC62

Chirpy
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Joined: Sep 7 2000

It's a souped-up 'Box Brownie' actually. (with DV in - of course!)

Chirpy's Big Breakfast can be heard on Radio England International. These are repeat shows (he's retired now) played Monday to Friday 8am-12 noon and repeated in the evening from 8pm-midnight. Also, Sunday 8am-12 noon. (Click link to listen) www.onlineradio5.com/2013/06/radio-england-international.html

John Willett
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Joined: Jun 1 2001

Absolutely right Tom & Alan.

Someone told me once that we retain 60% of what we hear and 40% what we see - so the sound really ~is~ more important than the picture.

Stands back and waits for the missiles.

John
 
A picture tells a thousand words, but sound tells a thousand pictures.

Alan Roberts at work
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Joined: May 6 1999

If they hit you, they're hitiles, they're only missiles if they miss. (Ducks and hides under filing cabinet).

Mad_mardy
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

ok you know i disaggree with you so try this simple test.
take a standard wide shot of something with good sound(must be good cuz u say its so important)
and just let it play for ten mins.

tell me how bored you get
and one more

Try watching a adult video without sound
Then watch it with sound and no picture
which is better

[This message has been edited by Mad_mardy (edited 21 June 2001).]

System 1: AMD X6 2.8, M4A79 Deluxe, 4GB DDR2, ATI HD4870 1GB DDR 3, 2TB total drive space, Matrox RTX 2, Premiere Pro CS4

System 2: AMD X2 5600, M2NPV-VM, 2GB DDR2, Geforce 8600GT 256 DDR 3, 450GB Total drive space, RTX100 with Premiere Pro 2

Camera's: JVC HD200, JVC HD101, 2X Sony HC62

Mad_mardy
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quote:Originally posted by John Willett:

Someone told me once that we retain 60% of what we hear and 40% what we see - so the sound really ~is~ more important than the picture.

the saying is actually 70% how you look
20% how you sound and 10% what you say
and also most of our memories are made up of images not sounds we disregard more sounds than what we retain.

System 1: AMD X6 2.8, M4A79 Deluxe, 4GB DDR2, ATI HD4870 1GB DDR 3, 2TB total drive space, Matrox RTX 2, Premiere Pro CS4

System 2: AMD X2 5600, M2NPV-VM, 2GB DDR2, Geforce 8600GT 256 DDR 3, 450GB Total drive space, RTX100 with Premiere Pro 2

Camera's: JVC HD200, JVC HD101, 2X Sony HC62