welding filming

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simonphw
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

hello all

i was wondering if anyone had any advice for me.
in the next couple of weeks we have to do some filming of a welding factory but was wondering if anyone had any experince of this or any tips or advice.

i realise there is some obvious things but any advice would be great.

hopefully we can get in before the filming but we might not be able too, so if we get any more info i will add it.

thanks in advance

simon

Alan Roberts
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Joined: May 3 1999

Get welding goggles for yourself, HSE rules.

Get neutrals for the camera, I'd guess a 2 or 4 should be enough. You won't be able to capture the welding itself and the environment on the same shot, contrast range will be too great. Don't focus a close-up of welding and hold it for too long, it shouldn't damage the ccd but you never know.

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RichardB
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Joined: Aug 27 1999

Also I seem to remember that arc weld bursts will cause dropout on video cameras: thats a very dusty old piece of knowledge but unless someone with more technical saavy contradicts it I'd double check all your footage on the day.

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

I have filmed hours of arc welding and grinding with a standard camera, locking the Iris at suitable exposures. I found the best way is to keep a safe distance in order to protect the lense from welding/grinding sparks, which can fly a couple of metres. Nothing to worry about, have fun! Hope this helps.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Thordell
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Joined: Oct 14 1999

Keep a plain piece of glass in front of the lens...welding sparks can leave pips on the lens and can't be removed.

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PaulD
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Joined: Aug 31 2002

Hi
I've got a roll shot in a Sony 9000E which has a massive electronic disturbance on the tape when the operator was filming next to a big spot welding machine. As RichardB says, check your footage before quiting your location.
Regards

Alan Roberts
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Joined: May 3 1999

It all depends on whether the jobs arc or gas welding. Gas welding's easy, only the electromagnetic effects of the arc itself, a rf generator. Electric welding's the problem because of the huge magnetic pulse generated when the arc strikes (it dumps charge from the transfomer, a short-term short circuit). Spot welding's the worst, because it's the equivalent of a flash discharge. None of them should do any permanent damage, just disrupt the magnetic process at the tape head.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

PP
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Joined: Jan 30 2004

The best piece of advice is from Alan, above. Never look directly at the welding. I found out to my cost when I just glanced at someone welding. That's all it took. No problems at the time but when I went to bed and woke up the morning after, my eyes had matter running out of them which had dried and I couldn't open them. Very scary I tell you, thought I'd gone blind. Went to work and then had to go to hospital with burns to the iris. ALWAYS WEAR GOGGLES. ( A fool learns from his own mistakes, a wise man from others mistakes)
PP

Peter

Nigel Longman
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Joined: Apr 28 1999
Quote:
Originally posted by PP:
The best piece of advice is from Alan, above. Never look directly at the welding. I found out to my cost when I just glanced at someone welding. That's all it took. ... snipped by NL
PP

Do a Google search under 'arc eye' if you want to know more about this.

Good luck NL

Mad_mardy
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

i personally wouldn't put glass between the camera and the weld due to possible reflections
which could ruin everything, i would use a filter
on the end of any ND's u might be using that could be disposed of if anything hit it.
i would stand well back and telephoto in

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simonphw
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

Hello all

Thanks for the advice. We shall be taking it all on board.

A few of the things we had thought of already but the one thing I was unsure of was a
thing Alan Roberts mentioned.
I hope this doesn’t sound dum but what are neutrals for the camera?

Once again thanks for all the help.

Simon

Alan Roberts
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Neutral filters, dark glass. They're a means of cutting down the light so that you can still operate with sensible aperture and shutter settings.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

DV Ed
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Joined: Jun 10 2002

Alan - Ever heard of it being possible to burn a CCD due to too much light? I was considering filming a sunset, however I was concerned by the fact doing this may damage the CCD even with ND filters. Its pretty easy to burn a hole through paper with a magnefing glass, and i sure dont want to do the same to my CCD's

Alan Roberts
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The first of the ccd cameras I saw, about 25 years ago, was delivered by the nice man from Sony who said "don't worry, you can't break it". That was like a red rag to a bull for a colleague, now retired :)

He pointed it at the sun from his office window and went to the Club Bar for lunch. When he came back, there was a black banana shape on nthe picture, where the aluminium electrodes had melted.

Sony were not amused.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

DV Ed
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Joined: Jun 10 2002

thats quite amusing Any idea what the likelyhood of causing the same kind of damage to a camera of today?!

Alan Roberts
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Zero, they have infra-red filters these days. But don't blame me if you experiment to see if I'm wrong, and find that I am. :D

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Colin Barrett
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Joined: Jun 5 1999

Years ago, I shot a sequence which told the story of producing steel in a rolling mill. We shot using a Sony DXC3000 (the first 3CCD camera) to a BVU150SP recorder. In order to compensate for the incredibly bright pictures as the steel was poured from the furnace, we applied really strong ND filters to the lens in addition to a softener, having set manual exposure (and audio) levels on a previous pour. The softener filter wasn't really necessary as the smoke and dust diffused the image anyhow. The resulting picture was really bright, but was usable and actually look pretty good.

Colin

simonphw
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Joined: Oct 19 2000

Helloall

As these things tend to go in the end we filmed in a brass-pouring factory. It was quite a small place and was so hot it was hilarious.
There was no way we could film the kiln with the brass in as it was too hot to stand by for too long and the guy whose factory it was didn’t like the idea of us getting too close as where we, but we got to film the actual pour and was a good distance back and got some good shots. It was close thou as he was only doing three pours so we had too work fast.
Also the camera tended to get a bit warm in between shots so we had too keep moving back then regetting our position.
We checked the shots on sight and when we got home and they have come out really good and we have enough too work with.
So thanks again for all the help and advice.

Simonphw

Alan Roberts
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Good, well done. Now you understand some of the problems and have done it for yourself.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

DV Ed
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Joined: Jun 10 2002
Quote:
Zero, they have infra-red filters these days. But don't blame me if you experiment to see if I'm wrong, and find that I am.

--------------------
Alan Roberts

Ahh excellent ok, If anything happens I shall send you the repair bill (joke :D )

Ed

Alan Roberts
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Send me the bill by all means, but don't expect me to pay it

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.