Wireless broadband speeds

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Jim Blacklock
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Joined: Apr 29 2001

My broadband provider is Virgin Media, 10MB speed, and a Virgin Media Netgear wireless hub with an ethernet connection to my computer. I also have a Virgin connector on a computer upstairs which gives me wireless access to that computer. I get close to the 10MB on the downstairs computer but only half that speed when I run a test on the upstairs computer. Should I expect a degraded broadband speed with a wireless connection or should I expect to get the same speed as the downstairs computer ?

Alan Roberts
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What speed is your WiFi rated

What speed is your WiFi rated at, and how many other WiFi systems are there in your neighbourhood? The usual reason for slow WiFi is that there are several other networks operating in the same waveband.

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mooblie
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Jim, can I suggest too:(a)

Jim, can I suggest too:

(a) if the computer upstairs can be moved (a laptop?) - try it in the same room as the router - see if that's any better?

and

(b) download and run inSSIDer (free) which will show you the other WiFi broadcasters in your area, their relative strengths, and the channels they're using (so you can avoid those channels).
---

PS: Cooo!!! An avatar, with the new board!!

Martin - DVdoctor in moderation. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Robert Scarfe
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Re: Wireless broadband speeds

What type of  WiFi adapter has your upstairs PC got in it?.B G or N. Speeds are highest with N - 300Mbs is possible B or G about 50Mbs or less

harlequin
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Re: Wireless broadband speeds

Jim Blacklock wrote:
Should I expect a degraded broadband speed with a wireless connection or should I expect to get the same speed as the downstairs computer ?

Your broadband speed is the speed between your router and the ISP.

You are only ever going to get the maximum it can manage , at best , and that will be on the hardwired cable to pc.

Wireless never manages to get the full speed ,

802.11b is rated at 10 Mbps , which may manage 5Mbps on average

802.11g is rated at 54 Mbps , which may manage 27Mbps on average

802.11n is rated at 300 Mbps , which may manage 150Mbps on average

Your cabled connection will manage 100Mbs . or if a gigabit port , up to 1000Mbs

 

Gary MacKenzie

sepulce@hotmail.com ( an account only used for forum messages )

Thinkserver TS140 , 750ti Graphics card  & LG 27" uws led backlight , Edius 8

Humax Foxsat HD Pvr / Humax Fox T2 dvbt

davemitch
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Joined: Sep 21 2003
Re: Wireless broadband speeds

As already said, main things that can affect wireless speeds are other networks in the same area on the same channel, but there are so many things operating in the 2.4GHz band that wireless networks use. Look out for interference from cordless phones, digi senders on Sky boxes, some lights, microwaves, they can all affect your wireless speed.

Dave Mitchell Lenovo Z570 laptop, iPhone, dodgy old Sony Hi8 handycam

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999
Re: Wireless broadband speeds

Rather than editing a computer-video editing magazine, my time is now spent sorting out problems such as described here.

My take is this:

My VERY strong suggestion is to avoid wireless if at all possible. That doesn't necessarily mean running an Ethernet cable to where you use the wireless-connecting PC (though would be the ideal). Instead, I'd recommend you use the the cabling that already exists - the mains cabling!

HomePlug is what you need. This uses the mains cabling to transmit the signal and, unless the two rooms are on different ring-mains circuits, you'll find that the speed is massively increased.

What is HomePlug?

It's techomagic - at least, that's the impression you get when you use if for the first time.

In your situation you need two HomePlug adaptors, one that connects into the mains (ideally directly into a wall socket) near the wireless router and connects to the router via an Ethernet cable (supplied). Up where the PC lives, a second HomePlug adaptor plugs into the mains near where the PC will be used (again, ideally, directly into a wall socket) and connects to the PC via an Ethernet cable.

The cost of HomePlug adaptors has plummeted of late. I recently bought, for testing purposes, a pair of 200Mbps (16.5MBytes/sec) from Amazon for the princely sum of £35! At the same time (also for testing purposes) I bought a pair of 500Mbps (62.5MBytes/sec) adaptors for £62.49.

I've not done any test so far but my expectation is that the speed from the 500Mbps models will be very lovely indeed - especially given the fact that most people see an enormous speed boost compared to wireless just by using 85Mbps (1.5GBytes/sec) models!

Oh, and just like all networking figures, those claimed by HomePlug are TOTAL bandwidth (two-way) and are not in any way an indication of the real speed that an individual PC will enjoy.

Nonetheless, even the cheapest, slowest, 85Mbps models can be expected to make a huge difference - and, if you don't like what you've bought, Amazon will give you your money back (and send you a post-paid label to return the items), assuming you alert them within (I think) seven days.

Oh, and if you want the most anal of all reviews of HomePlug, search HEXUS.net for my review of some devolo models. The review is very old now but the info there is still valid and there's lots and lots and lots of test result and details.

For the record, though, the advice about downloading and installing inSSIDer is sound - the program gives you a good idea of whether your wireless router is conflicting with one or more wireless routers that might be using the same wireless channel (between 1 and 11 usually). Though if you want a better view, you have to pay out about £150 for the hardware that the company makes to do this job.

Whatever you use, though, the trouble is, that even if you go into the web-based control panel of your wireless router (via a PC attached to the router by an Ethernet cable) and switch the router to an apparently unused (or less well used) wireless channel, you have to be aware that what you see with inSSIDer is a snapshot in time - it might be that three or four other wireless modems in the area are turned off when you check with inSSIDer. So you need to check the situation through the day and evening to be sure you are not moving out of the frying pan and into the fire.

What Gary says is key to the problem, too:

++++++

Your broadband speed is the speed between your router and the ISP.
You are only ever going to get the maximum it can manage , at best , and that will be on the hardwired cable to pc.
Wireless never manages to get the full speed ,
802.11b is rated at 10 Mbps , which may manage 5Mbps on average
802.11g is rated at 54 Mbps , which may manage 27Mbps on average
802.11n is rated at 300 Mbps , which may manage 150Mbps on average
Your cabled connection will manage 100Mbs . or if a gigabit port , up to 1000Mbs

+++++++

And Dave's comment about the causes of poor wireless reception being multivarious is also spot on.

Cheers

Bob C

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999
Re: Wireless broadband speeds

Hmm, formatting in that posting not wonderful.

 

Let me see if I can find out why.

 

Yup, you need to put in TWO carriage returns if you want a space after a paragraph. Hmmm.

 

Bob

Robert Scarfe
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Frequency Interference from In-Home PLT Devices

Hi Bob

Take a look a this report, is it wise to recommend these devices!.

http://Frequency Interference from In-Home PLT Devices

allso search YouTube for interference from PLT devices. Its allso open to debate if they are indeed legal in the UK.

Robert

mooblie
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Re: Frequency Interference from In-Home PLT Devices

Broken link, Robert. (If you can't edit your previous post, make a new post with a link, and I'll fix it.)

Martin - DVdoctor in moderation. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Robert Scarfe
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Re: Frequency Interference from In-Home PLT Devices - Link
shona
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Joined: Mar 19 2004
Re: Wireless broadband speeds

Hi, I have a similar problem and am unfortunately very ignorant of wifi issues, so I hope Jim B. doesnt mind me adding a related question. I would be very grateful for any advice.

I have a desktop and laptop, both connected via wifi. The laptop gets a decent signal, the desktop gets a very low, useless signal, although its nearer to the router/ modem. Could this still be a channel issue? Re. the desktop, I just did a clean Win XP instal., and reinstalled the internal wifi card; abit airpace). I am also Virgen broadband, (through telephone line).

 

Thanks.

davemitch
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Joined: Sep 21 2003
Re: Wireless broadband speeds

I had a problem when changing my router from an old Netgear to a new BT Homehub3. My PC was ok, wireless worked OK, but my wife and daughter's PCs were using a BT Voyager USB wireless adaptor. I went to the BT Broadband forum, and it was suggested that some of the older USB adaptors don't work with anything later than WEP security very well. I changed both PCs to TP-Link USB adaptors that were recommended (about £9 from Amazon) which solved the problem.

 

Also, we were bought a Bird Box camera a couple of years ago, and I was testing it in the house before putting it up a tree, and it killed the wireless from the Netgear router. Changing the router channel sorted that one out.

Dave Mitchell Lenovo Z570 laptop, iPhone, dodgy old Sony Hi8 handycam

shona
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Joined: Mar 19 2004
Re: Wireless broadband speeds

Hi Dave, thanks for your comment, but I dont use an old USB style adaptor in my desktop PC, rather a new internal wifi card that cost me 20 pounds recently . It was working fine up to a point, but after a system overhall, the signal is useless. What I dont understand, is why my older laptop does fine, on supposedly (?)  the same channel, and further away from the router.

DAVE M
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Joined: May 17 1999
Re: Wireless broadband speeds

I've just bought a WD livewire kit for CAT5 over mains from Costco and can'ty get the dam thing to work - although I've not tried every permutation yet.

 

 I managed to get the modem connected to one box, then plugged the second box into the same double socket and fed the PC and it works. But trying to run the Mac (in another room) off the same set up failed with a long CAT5, as did trying to get the new Humax Fox- something wityh TV portal running by using a downstairs socket.

 

 I'll try a different "master" mains socket tonight as it's the only variant that I've not changed.

The house could do with a rewire but it's safe enough.

 

anybody tried the WD?

I might borrow another system from a mate to try incase it's a WD thing

shona
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Joined: Mar 19 2004
Re: Wireless broadband speeds
Hi,
 
Just signing back in to report on how I solved my WiFi problem; (laptop "Excellent" signal, but desktop god-awful "Low" signal).
 
I changed channels!! From 1 to 2. I had read this could solve it, but I didn't believe it as I couldn't understand how if it were a channel issue, the laptop was fine, but the desktop wasn't (both using same channel) However, it seems some internal WiFi cards do not like certain channels?? Still doesn't make sense to me, but there you go.
 
I had to phone my Virgin helpline 150,  (free from your Virgin landline) and once through all the recorded menus... the techie told me how to, via my laptop, get to the settings website for my router. Then he talked me through how to change the router's channel, via this web page. (Quite easy). The first new channel I tried worked for both my laptop and desktop! Maybe its beginners luck!
yessmiley
Shona
g3vbl
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Joined: Sep 9 2000
Re: Frequency Interference from In-Home PLT Devices - Link
 
Before I start, I shall declare an interest. As my username might suggest, I'm a user of the rf spectrum.
 
Robert is quite right, these items are of dubious legality, being pushed by manufacturers who falsely certify that their equipment satisfies the, already dubious, required standards. They pollute the rf spectrum and their manufacture and sale should have been prohibited from the start.
 
Networking is best done by wire but, where that is not possible, (I'm using wireless here in SE Asia) wireless is an acceptable alternative. PLT is certainly not.
 
Jim Blacklock
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Joined: Apr 29 2001
Re: Wireless broadband speeds
Shona, what quality of signal did you get after changing channel ? I moved my router from beneath the windowsill to on the windowsill and that changed my quality from low to good. Maybe I could get even better quality by changing channel !
shona
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Joined: Mar 19 2004
Re: Wireless broadband speeds
The signal quality is described as "Low" but in practice works fine. Unfortunately, the fix I previously described isn't as great as I thought and my wireless still goes "offline" quite regularly. When this happens,  using my other PC, I change the router channel and this seems to get the wireless up and running once more.  I alternate between 1, 2 and 3. I think the actual channel is kind of irrelevant, but changing it seems to act as some kind of reboot. In my case, I know distance from the router is not the problem.
mooblie
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Re: Wireless broadband speeds

As I said in post no.2 above: run inSSIDer - there's a link in that post. It will show you what's actually going on regarding wifi channels. Stops you having to guess or speculate!

BTW: as inSSIDer will show you: adjacent wifi channels overlap heavily. It is only worth making BIG changes (like channels 1, 6 or 11) if you want to avoid interference or make a substantial change in behaviour.

Martin - DVdoctor in moderation. Everyone is entitled to my opinion.

Jim Blacklock
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Joined: Apr 29 2001
Re: Wireless broadband speeds
The positioning seems to have considerable effect. I had the wi-fi receiver on my upstairs computer sitting on top of the computer underneath the desk. After success in moving the downstairs router I moved the upstairs receiver on to the desk. Reception now gone from "good" to "very good"
I also find that I occasionally lose the link but find that right clicking on the internet icon on the bottom right and then clicking on "repair" fixes the problem.
steve
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Joined: Apr 8 1999
Re: Frequency Interference from In-Home PLT Devices - Link
g3vbl wrote
 
"Before I start, I shall declare an interest. As my username might suggest, I'm a user of the rf spectrum.

Robert is quite right, these items are of dubious legality, being pushed by manufacturers who falsely certify that their equipment satisfies the, already dubious, required standards. They pollute the rf spectrum and their manufacture and sale should have been prohibited from the start.

Networking is best done by wire but, where that is not possible, (I'm using wireless here in SE Asia) wireless is an acceptable alternative. PLT is certainly not."

 
 
Whilst I can see the problems of certain special interest groups, (HF/VHF non-broadcast reception in this case), the position regarding PLT is for sure going to get more vexed in the future. The 2.4GHz ISM band is already overloaded by its intended systems, which in domestic terms mean mainly wi-fi. Trends seem to indicate that:
 
the deployment of IEEE802.11/n which 'channel hog' (albeit in a structured way, maximises the ISM band traffic
 
offering wi-fi for every device, including media centres, printers, desktops and even NASs, where default setups encourage users to go wireless instead of plugging in short ethernet patch cables, increases the density of ISM traffic, particularly in city dwellings
 
a similar proliferation of Bluetooth gadgets create an increase in casual band usage
 
TV senders, baby monitors, power monitors and a plethora of trivial wireless toys et al also clog the the band. Most of these devices do not manage their use of the band, so will cause direct jamming of any other devices with which they share the channels
 
Almost universal ownership of microwave ovens that can be used at any time, (particularly at the busiest internet use periods, i.e. after school and dinner time)
 
The net result of the above could be that plain old wi-fi could be abandoned by those wanting reliable bandwidth for AV purposes. PLT is certainly promoted as the answer, so it may become much more common in homes. Reception problems with local and national licenced broadcasts will gradually be removed by use of digital transmissions, (DAB & DVB).
Those who want continued access to HF/VHF bands for non-broadcast or non-national reception use will need to assess their location's suitability for such activities.  Their problems are much like those faced by astronomers with light pollution, (caused by the population's modern lifestyle).
PLT has been around for a few years now and I can't see any retrospective regulation impacting on kit already purchased.
 
 
Steve