Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their subscription only next generation software

13 replies [Last post]
col lamb
Offline
Joined: Jan 2 2010
Well I thought that someone would have posted a comment before now on the news from Adobe.
 
Adobe CS6 is the last version you can buy where you have a perpetual license.
 
All future generations will be in what they call the Creative Cloud where a monthly subscription is paid now and forever, stop paying the subscription and after 30 days your software will fail to work (no, you read that correctly).
 
There is a reduced cost for the first year for existing users, thereafter who knows.
 
It has caused uproar on the Adobe forum.
 
What about you guys?
 
Are other software providers going to follow suit?
 
Are you going to join the cloud?

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

Mark M
Offline
Joined: Nov 17 1999
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
I'm very happy with this subscription model.
 
For those who don't know what all this fuss is about, Adobe have announced that they're switching over to a subscription model for future versions of their software. CS6 is the last version where you'll be able to buy a "perpetual" licence - ie one that you own rather than rent. CS6 will continue to be available for sale.
 
 
I've been a Creative Cloud subscriber since they announced it a year ago, and it makes sense for me and my business in lots of ways. As an upgrader I got the intro pricing. I'm just starting on the full price now.

For me, the pricing isn't a problem: less than £50/month including the VAT for every product in the Adobe Master collection plus lots more programs plus all the creative cloud benefits (website hosting, cloud storage, etc) represent good value for me. I was a Production Premium user from CS3 to CS5.5 but also paid for Dreamweaver and Lightroom. Now they're all included in one monthly payment, which I'm sure works out less than the annual upgrade, and it spreads the cost across the whole year. I've also found myself taking advantage of having all these programs I didn't have before. Am using Acrobat a lot, have been making websites in Muse, using Illustrator to create motion paths for use in After Effects, and am now using InDesign for all my printed material.

If I stopped subscribing, what are the issues... I won't lose any of my media...  I wouldn't stop subscribing overnight, I'd be able to archive everything into a form which I could open using my legacy software, or an alternative. So all my PSD files will still open in the older versions of Photoshop I own. The CS6 Premiere Pro projects won't open in CS5 anyhow, so I can just output the EDLs as XML.. etc etc.

The one major issue for me would be access to my Lightroom catalogue, but they're going to continue to offer Lightroom as a stand alone product.

Otherwise, if there was something I desperately needed to access again using the Adobe software then I can just rent the program or the entire suite for a month.

I'm not too worried, frankly. But then I'm doing this for a living, not a hobby.

It will be interesting to see where this goes, and I'm sure every other software manufacturer is keeping a close eye on this. Adobe won't have decided to do this on the spur of the moment. They'll have conducted lots of market research and testing, and they'll have closely observed what happened with Apple and the FCPX "fiasco" to see what happens when you break an accepted model.

One of the huge advantages is that Adobe will no longer be restricted by the Sarbanes-Oxley Act (some daft American law which restricts offering free feature upgrades). Photoshop users have seen the benefit of this over the last year where CC subscribers got lots of little extras and improvements which weren't available to those who bought the "perpetual" licence.

The bottom line is going to be the bottom line: keep an eye on Adobe's stock prices!

Adobe Certified Professional Premiere Pro CS6, Premiere Pro CC

Adobe Community Professional

paulears
paulears's picture
Offline
Joined: Jul 8 2008
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
For me, it means a switch to another edit platform next computer upgrade when no doubt the upgrade servers will be switched off. I'm on CS5, I upgraded from CS4 because I'd had a good year and the cash was in the bank. I cannot commit my business to a permanent running cost for an editor - for me it is an absolute cast iron no no! Have you ever tried to use an old version of Premiere - I've got my old CS3 on an old machine I use for getting material into the system from certain kit - trying to load a CS5 project into CS3 is a nightmare. I frequently have to work on old material - and usually end up doing something to it and saving it, accidentally as a CS5 project. I'm a Sony Sound Forge user - have been for years, going up in versions (at better upgrade rates than Adobe too) and I shall probably switch to Vegas. 
 
I do not lease vehicles, I do not borrow the money for speculative future work, and I don't rent equipment unless I'm sure it's a one-off. No way is my business going to reply on Adobe not suddenly having me by the short and cur lies. Sorry folks, but the prices are going up. If you need to keep working, and have control over finances, do not subscribe.
 
I realise lots of people love the idea of a regular smaller outgoing, but everyone in the financial services world knows that that model is used to lock people in to legacy contracts, and you forget it after a while.
 
So we're looking at £600 a year, for a product that would have paid for itself in less than two years, with no residual value at all?  A 50" Plasma display rents for less than £40 a month, and costs more than the software? When you rent a plasma, if it dies, they come out and fix it. What do adobe actually do? Fix your computer? no. Help you install it? no, talk to you on the phone when you need help using it? No. They offer the possibility of extra bits and pieces - unspecified extras, when they feel it's fine. 
 
I hope it backfires on them severely. It's a mistake, and possibly just an attempt to lock their users into something that adobe, not the customer, controls.
 
Some people will like it - that's clear, and that is ok, we're all different. Lots of users hate the idea intensely - and I'm one of them. It's also likely to draw in the pirates too - you can bet your life people will be working on beating it now. I do not endorse piracy, but for some, the adobe decision will be simply the final straw!
RayL
Offline
Joined: Mar 31 1999
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
All the four major producers of editing software for PCs (Adobe, Grass Valley, Sony and Avid) have been narrowing their focus over the years. They are all aiming at the same small group of editors (rather in the same way that people who buy TV advertising time are always aiming at  25 - 35 year olds with disposable income). Adobe have presumably calculated that the savings will be greater than the losses. If the plan fails and the losses are greater then Adobe will collapse within a very short time, the 'cloud' will disappear in a puff of smoke and users will have nothing.  Is it worth the risk?
 
Ray
 
 
col lamb
Offline
Joined: Jan 2 2010
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
Mark

You must have money to burn, you are paying £900 every 18 months (the Adobe product cycle period for CS versions)  for software that would cost less than £500 to upgrade under the old system

I would not mind the subscription way if (a) the cost was way the hell less (b) if after subscribing for say 18 months I could cease and transfer to a perpetual license

Col Lamb Lancashire UK ASUS P6X58D-E MOBO, 3.3GHz hex core i7 CPU, 12GB RAM, nVidia GTX580 GPU, W7 64bit, 500Gb boot, 1Tb RAID (Mirror) Store, 500Gb RAID (stripped), Edius 6.05, CS 5.5

steve
Offline
Joined: Apr 8 1999
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
I suspect that Adobe see this as part of a migration from their current user base (from amateurs, through small businesses to large production houses) to just those who have business use. For many of them, what is really a rental cost can be written off as a business expense with the appropriate tax allowance.
Their Elements consumer range will then be left for those who can't get any subsidy for their purchases.
As Ray says, will enough of the users see it that way or will they jump ship.
Mark M
Offline
Joined: Nov 17 1999
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
Col,
 
I don't have money to burn. I'm spending it on tools which make me money and which help me create my art. That's not burning, that's investment. And it's a business expense I can offset against my tax liability. It's my choice to do that - I could stick with CS 5.5 - and don't think I haven't considered the options. But having seen and worked with CC apps there's no way I'm sticking with CS6. The multicam improvements and Speedgrade's Shot Matching tool will save me enough time to pay for the price of admission.
 
Like I say, I'm happy with the subscription model. Obviously there are plenty that aren't. Maybe Adobe will U-Turn, maybe they won't. But they signed up half a million people to Creative Cloud in its first year, which was doubtless encouraging for them. There's no shortage of people dissing Adobe on every forum, but their share price hasn't been hit hard, and the online petition against CC has just 15,500 signers despite extensive publicity....

Adobe Certified Professional Premiere Pro CS6, Premiere Pro CC

Adobe Community Professional

paulears
paulears's picture
Offline
Joined: Jul 8 2008
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
15.785 now - Thanks for the info on the petition, I didn't know there was one, but I've signed. I doubt Adobe will shift stance. I have £1200 worth of virtual studio sets, but they shut the authorisation server down, so I can't use those any longer -  I've had them about 6 years, and now, they're useless. This is why I don't trust a subscription model.
ChrisG
Offline
Joined: Apr 10 1999
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
Accountancy software has  been going this way  for a while, Office  365  is introducing similar ideas -  The  germ of this  probably gestated at software houses when they  got  online  activation sorted.
 
I have  recently completed a  number of  new projects  for  customers using Adobe  creative that  I wouldn't have  been able to competitively quote on otherwise.  It works  for  me , maybe  not for others
 
The  financial business implications for  this type of purchase are  quite interesting.
 
In someways I think   since the  days of cover disks on Amiga User International or similar we  have always  felt  software is something we  can get  for free and had a  reluctance to accept the  true costs of the  real thing.
Mark M
Offline
Joined: Nov 17 1999
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
Adobe have just released their first update to Premiere Pro CC:

http://blogs.adobe.com/premierepro/2013/07/ppro-cc-july-2013-update.html

Some bug fixes, but a lot of new features.

Previous to the cloud model they'd have had to wait for a proper point release to bring new features to the application since they were limited by that daft American law which prevented them from released new features for free.

So, for those of us who've been editing with PremierePro CC lots of nice new productivity improvers. And I expect we'll see such updates - the things that are in the engineers JDI lists - appearing in the other applications soon too.

 

Adobe Certified Professional Premiere Pro CS6, Premiere Pro CC

Adobe Community Professional

infocus2
Offline
Joined: Mar 2 2012
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
I'm a fairly new CS6 user - and doubt I'll be giving Adobe any more money. It's not that Premiere is bad - but it's not as good as I was hoping for.
 

Apple seem to have lost the plot with FCPX, Adobe has been a bit disappointing (let alone the Creative Cloud scenario) - whilst Avid have reduced the cost of their software. Let's face it, the reason I didn't buy that in the first place was the cost then compared to the others. And whilst the vendors make big issue about the whizz-bang features of their product, the area in which Avid totally trounces the likes of Premiere is the feature that editors use very, very often - the trim mode. Do trimming in Avid and life becomes easy compared with any other program on the market.

Mark M
Offline
Joined: Nov 17 1999
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
Is your main disappointment in Premiere its trimming abilities?

I don't mean to tell you something that you don't know, but in CS6 there are two different - well, three, if you count trimming in the timeline - trim methods

There's the "legacy" one, which you get to by going Window -> Trim monitor, and then there's the much improved method - new to CS6 - where you highlight an edit point and hit T (or go sequence -> trim edit). This is generally called Dynamic Trimming. This brings up the trim window in the program monitor and allows you to do all your trimming using the keyboard.

http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/trimming-clips1.html#work_in_trim_mode

I followed a few tutorials and spent some time really learning how to do this - mostly prompted by Andrew Devis' enthusiastic  videos on Creative Cloud here, numbers 21, 22, and 23.

I won't go so far as to say it's changed my life, but it's certainly changed how I edit, and speeded up my work no end. I can rip through a sequence pretty quickly now, doing all the work in Dynamic Trim, and hardly having to toch the mouse at all. If you haven't hit on this way of working, I'd recommend spending a bit of time getting up to speed on it.  And if this is the way you've been working, and can't stand it, well, fair enough! I don't know Avid well, so I can't compare their methods and relative trimming merits.

Adobe Certified Professional Premiere Pro CS6, Premiere Pro CC

Adobe Community Professional

infocus2
Offline
Joined: Mar 2 2012
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
Mark M wrote:
Is your main disappointment in Premiere its trimming abilities?

It's a combination of things, trim mode is the simplest to give as a single example. If you want another, it doesn't seem possible to do what I'd call "smart render", at least without a plugin? (Please correct me if I'm wrong!) Hence, if you are working with a format like XDCAM, and the edit consists mainly of a number of cuts, there is a lot of merit on final export in just rendering around the edits themselves to recreate a GOP structure. Most of the material stays as the original - no decoding/recoding - only a few frames around edits. It seems with Premiere that you have to select a precise codec, bitrate etc to code into - "keep as original" doesn't seem to be an option?

Mark M wrote:
.........then there's the much improved method - new to CS6 - where you highlight an edit point and hit T (or go sequence -> trim edit). This is generally called Dynamic Trimming. This brings up the trim window in the program monitor and allows you to do all your trimming using the keyboard.............it's certainly changed how I edit, and speeded up my work no end. I can rip through a sequence pretty quickly now, doing all the work in Dynamic Trim, and hardly having to toch the mouse at all. If you haven't hit on this way of working, I'd recommend spending a bit of time getting up to speed on it.  And if this is the way you've been working, and can't stand it..........

I'm aware of that, and use it..... in many ways it's similar to the simplest form of the Avid way. Fine for some edits, but nowhere near as comprehensive or versatile as what the Avid trim mode allows, and the beauty of the Avid approach is that it's far more intuitive as well! I won't go into all the whole details, but it's things like slip/slide edits and the Avid four window mode. The way in which Avid trim works with split edits on different tracks. Being able to trim off an out point on one track of an edit point, whilst trimming the corresponding in point of the next clip on a different track. (Easier to do than describe! And very useful if you're cutting sync speech.)

Mark M wrote:
I won't go so far as to say it's changed my life, but , well, fair enough! I don't know Avid well, so I can't compare their methods and relative trimming merits.

Try Avid!! When it was much more expensive than Adobe, it was a case of get what you pay for - and more than I was prepared to pay for the advantages. Now Avid have cut their prices, and Adobe have gone to the "Creative Cloud" model, everything changes - Avid becomes far more competitive. (Very briefly, Avid requires you to click on beginnings and ends of clips when a "roller" appears, one or two per track, depending on the type of edit. Highly flexible - the "rollers" can be anywhere track-track and very intuitive as you can visualise what's happening. Try it!)

FreeFlow
Offline
Joined: Mar 1 2012
Re: Have Adobe shot themselves in the foot with their ...
I'm happy with the subscription. There's no way in hell I'd be able to afford all of the product series in boxed form. With the subscription service I can have all of the software, and get a pain free upgrade when the new versions come out. It's a good idea IMO.