After shooting a load of stuff in the field (using Sennheiser radio mics), we often need to record a voice over afterwards (when the Sennheisers are not around)
I have spent a long time reading through more info on microphones than I ever hoped to see...
...but I can't find any (useful to me) buying advice :(
In a regular room environment (i.e. no special sound proofing etc), what is the best way to record 'neutral' voice overs ?
Specifically, what kind of mic would you guys recommend - that won't break the bank ?
I have been using an Audio Technica ATR25 plugged into a Sony camcorder, but the resulting capture is so 'crystal clear and punchy with no depth and a constant slight echo' that I am struggling to get it to match 'regular human voices' in an interview situation
I know it sounds slightly daft to complain of too much 'clarity'...
...but I think this is the audio equivalent of 'pushing the brightness and contrast too high on a picture'...
...what you get is certainly 'clear' - but not in a natural way - and it almost cerrtainly does not have enough colour
Also, the 'long range sensitivity of the ATR25 is just nutz...
...happily picking up the sound of a soft bird tweet several houses away
Might be a 'winner' for wildlife shows - but makes recording Beeb-style (aspiration!) voiceovers very tough
Any all thoughts welcome !
I believe it's as important to pay as much attention to the recording environment as to the mic used.
When I record voice-overs for my humble home movies I use the room with the most soft furnishings - the lounge. This helps kill unwanted echoes which can make the recording sound over-bright. Close the windows and the curtains. Clap your hands and listen carefully to the way the sound dies away. Make the room as acoustically dead as possible - kill reverberation.
Position the talent against a sound absorbing surface and point the mic towards them. A duvet suspended behind them is good - otherwise use the curtains. If you're using an omni mic put an absorbing surface around the back and sides of the mic - cushions etc. To get a more intimate sound mic up the speaker as closely as possible but watch out for popping from their breath on implosive sounds. Pop shields are useful to prevent this and can be bought cheaply or fabricated from an old pair of tights or similar.
Listen carefully to the results. You might be able to tailor the sound using a graphic equaliser to produce the timbre and type of sound you want. Watch out for the way people speak - they often start off loudly and drop in volume during the recording. Using a compressor to maintain speech levels and sound energy might be useful. Listen carefully for sibilance and use a de-esser if necessary.
Using these methods you might be able to produce the sound you want with your existing mic.
Good luck.
...otherwise use the curtains...
Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhhhh......
Hahahahahahahahhaha......
So it was not just I that spent 2 hours on Sunday walking everywhere from my loft to the foot of my garden - with a camcorder and mic - recording at various angles and volumes until I finally decided that 'bunching all the curtains in the sitting room together and speaking into them' was the way to go !!!!!!!
I can't believe that so many of us (poor, hapless souls, trying to create a little bit of News 24 etc) find the same 'mundane' solutions to high-tech problems!
It is still not good enough - and I am happy to blame the mic now
The ATR25 is a duo-cartoide (I think that's what the young folk call it these days) and is REMARKABLY sensitive...
...so, even speaking into me curtains like a lunatic, I still get a considerable 'bounce' from the back of the room
Since I don't own a longer/larger room (and am not likely to upgrade me lounge any time soon), I think I need to look at (a) better mics and/or (b) some kind of mixer
Thanks for letting me know that I am not certifiable :)
get in the car and drive to a deserted spot. record in the car
works for me :)
Thanks for all that response !
...but does anyone have an opinion on mics ?
e.g. If the ATR25 is simply too good/reactive - then is there a mic that has a 'compressed field' ?
Sorry, I don't have the technical language to describe this - but the audio equivalent of setting the depth of field on a camera...
...so that some kind of threshold kicks in and only audio over a certain level (which, I guess, can be closely related to distance) gets captured
A mic like this for < £100 - does it exist ?
I am not talking from experience but I would have thought that if the mike was too "clear" then that could be dealt with in production?
If a film maker wants to produce a less than perfect shot they don't use an inferior lens but set it up accordingly.
BobA
A tip on cheap, quick VO's from an audio forum and I can't remember which, was to take a cardboard box, cutting off one of the short ends. Line with carpet underlay and place upside down on underlay mat. Suspend the mic via rubber bands into one end of the box - speak into the cut off end.
Having tried it for emergency VO's, it's pretty damn good!
The box idea is sound (sic). As for mics, you'll find that any decent mic exhibits all the symptoms you describe. It's not that it's too sensitive it's more amatter of perception. Our ears/brain are extremely good at filtering out stuff we don't want to hear like airconditioning and room acoustics. But when you listen critically to a recording these things are all too obvious. One possible answer (some of you will think I'm mad) is a Coles lip mic of the type used by sports commentators. http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/public/view_item_cat.php?catalogue_number=coles_4104
A bit pricey but we used to use them for all sorts of things, not just sports.
Otherwise, you might try one of the cheap Chinese multi pattern condensers and use it in figure of eight mode. (The RV10 from here: http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Condensor_Mics.html
is very good.
The rejection at the sides is much better than a cardioid so, if you point the back at something absorbant and the front at your mouth and use it reasonably close, you should be able to get away with a lot. (Oh, and use a pop screen too) I use one to record in a room with not much treatment and several computers running with every success. Hope this helps.
Thanks everyone !
Will try the ideas proposed
Have to say that I tend to project too strongly sometimes (must be excited!) and have found that even putting my hand between the mic and me mouth helps... but will try something more 'pro' in the pop-screen department as well :)
OK
Field report as follows...
Took a long, cardboard box (not the perfect size/shape - but it still worked!), opened one end completely and used scissors to put a hole in the other
Used bubble wrap (doubled over - i.e. '2 sheets thick') to fill the inside
Fed the mic lead through
Rigged it up to the camera and did the voice overs
The bass shot up - the reflections disappeared and the sound was altogether more 'Beeb' :) :) :D :) :)
Not perfect - and I got a tiny bit of 'rustle' from the bubblewrap when there was movement...
..but I think a perfect solution lies this way
One word of warning to anyone else who feels like trying this...
...make sure your box is not too narrow and you do not project too well...
...I had to drop a load of volume off that channel in Premiere before it was usable...
...seems the 'Branny box method' wastes very few sound waves !
.
OK everybody peeps.
It's Boxing Day, you have a bin bag full of boxes, torn wrapping paper and bubble wrap.
These days we aspire to a 'retro' Christmas where the family get together for handicraft projects and we have to be greener in our waste disposal.
So.. time to get everyone involved in making those audio booths - or to use it's new trade name ' The Branny Box'.;) :D
Merry christmas folks.
Well doggone! - Nice when the simple stuff works out ok. It'll never be perfect, especially with bubble wrap, but the idea's the same.
I also forgot to add using a pop filter which helps for those with a lisp.
Another addition, which may not have been made clear, is to pierce 2 holes in the top of the box to dangle (technical term) a couple of rubber bands for hanging the mic on.
Come the New Year, the VO guys with their fancy studios will start feeling the pinch as everyone rigs up their redundant cardboard packaging to add their own :D
http://www.studiospares.com/pd_422110_SE%20REFLEXION%20FILTER.htm
fits onto a mic stand to limit the room's effects.
Don't use bubble wrap - -an old duvet or blanket is better and make sure that the box isn't a cube or you'll encourage reflections. Actually, a squarish box with the top removed and one side cut away works just as well.
Pop filtrers are cheap from maplin and cheaper if you make your own from a wire coat hanger and a nylon stocking. - just pull the hanger into a diamond shape.
Ypu need to play with the mic selection to get a good proximity effect without overllaoding it - a bit of compression helps as well.
While I am busy collecting money to pay the (no doubt huge) patent fees for occassional use to Mr Branny for his box...
...I thought I'd share the current version with you all :)
This first image shows you that I have picked totally the wrong box - but it is already W-A-Y better than a simple 'mic in the room'
The box has been lined with bubble wrap
At the bottom, near where the mic enters, there are 4 un-ironed, old (but clean!) socks - so that they form a 'collar' around the base of the device
Before ready Mr Branny's latest suggestion, I had already sellotaped a tissue loosely over the 'speaking end' (sorry - no stockings/tights in the house :() to reduthe any chanthe of thibilance (which I am - apparently - prone to)
Looking down the throat of the beast reveals the internals in more detail...
The black 'roll' is my son's old 'Steel Series Gaming Pad', which has a thick, foamy construction
I am going to ponder this for a few days - and probably make a trip to B&Q on Boxing Day (geddit ?) to create something a little more permanent
I will send the other half to get the tights - cos I is shy and not comfortable in me own masculinity :p
The acoustic foam would be very desirable along with the fold up box. But I think the recyclable version has the edge - Hey, I'm green! :D
As it's Xmas I think the brand should be patented as "The Branny Tub" :D
On the one hand... Dammit ! Sodding thing already exists
On the other hand... IKEA here I come - I reckon some of their cheap bins/toy holders will make a good starting point - and we have a 'specialist foam shop' 2 miles down the road
Will let you all know how I get on :)
Ive held back on this post but in over 27 years as a audio engineer in film and Tv and having done voice overs in all sorts of situations I have to make a few comments.
I have never seen such a heath robinson solution to what is a fundamental mis-understanding of a simple situation.
Putting a cardioid sensitive capacitor mic inside a box of any description will not give a good sound at all regardless of the idea of removing room ambience. I have never seen any boxes of this type used and the proximity effect of a cardiod mic will just make this sound dreadful and you are actually better doing one of two things and keeping it more simple.
!: Get a shure SM 58 vocal mic or even better what the radio guys use an SM7 or an electrovoice Re20 dynamic mic and put a good foam wind gag on it and get it close to the voiceover artist. This is how the commentary on snooker tournaments I have worked on has been done and will a bit of careful Eq the mic will sound closer to location sources. You can roll off anything below 150hz and the idea in all of this is to get a good signal to noise ratio in whatever room you are working.
2: Get an omni capacitor mic! Proximity effect makes cardioid capacitor mikes sound too bassy and pop when too close so if you have a variable mic switch it to OMNI and once again get it up close and turn the gain down, this will remove room ambience and the big bass boost and stop the mic poping, as said they are hugely sensitive and some of them are not designed for such close use and will sound unreal and increase the effects of room ambience as you have to turn the gain up if you cant get too close due to poping and make them worse than they actually are.
Just as a last thought most vocals in recording studios are recorded using omni mics as the artist can get really close to the mic without too much proximity effect increasing the bass response and therefore poping, you can then turn the gain down and get rid of room ambience.
Hope this makes some sense?
In the initial post in this thread you say you are recording the voice-over using your camcorder as a recorder. This is fair enough, but are you able to switch to manual gain control and set a suitable recording level? This would be far better than leaving it to the auto gain control.
In the initial post in this thread you say you are recording the voice-over using your camcorder as a recorder. This is fair enough, but are you able to switch to manual gain control and set a suitable recording level? This would be far better than leaving it to the auto gain control.
Good point this and the key is to get the maximum signal to noise (room ambience) ratio.
Thanks everyone - especially JGNattrass - for taking the time to write these posts - all feedback/info/experiences gratefully received :)
The '...bassy & pop...' comment rings so true !
Using the box was definitely better than the 'hopelessly hollow sound' I had before, but I think (after reading these posts and researching the various mic systems on Wikipedia etc) that we need to look again at the kit being used as well
I think the focus for Boxing Day to New Year's Day will be on :-
- Right mic
- Right distance
- Right mix
Plus, when I can get to a foam shop, 'right good sound deadening material'
More research has produced this product - for just over £100 - does anyone have any opinions ?...
http://www.behringer.com/PODCASTUDIO-FIREWIRE/index.cfm?lang=eng
How about one of these?
Straight in via USB and interface and headphone amp built into the mic, add on a popper stopper and it is a cheap simple V/O solution that includes some sound editing software.
Or this?
Beware the Samson. The mic is probably too directional and I cannot find the converter specs. You really want at least 24 bit conversion.
The Behringer is amazingly good value for money but you do get what you pay for.
I've been searching for a stockist since it was discussed on the chatter forum in December. Supplies seem non existent http://www.studiospares.com/pd_388230_SAMSON%20GTRACK%20USB%20MIC%20SYSTEM.htm#
This is a gift for a friend who enjoys creating his own music. He wants a reasonable quality sound that he likes, but is realistic enough to know it won't be airing on the BBC.
That bundle Rob posted looks real good. I've had very positive experiences of Rode's condenser mics
Chris, I have had the MicPortPro here for the last few weeks. Does what it says on the tin, seems very tolerant of imprecise level setting and is plug and play with most things (needs an extra driver (free) for applications that want to see a stereo input) Only downers, doesn't work with legacy Win2K and keep the headphones off until the PC has booted (howlround).